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Unmasking Ourselves (Part 1): The Cost of Authenticity in a Filtered World
S2:E5

Unmasking Ourselves (Part 1): The Cost of Authenticity in a Filtered World

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Christian:

Welcome to the Uproot Project podcast, where we dig deep to uncover and dismantle toxic beliefs about God, ourselves, and each other. Our goal is to replant new insights in the fertile soil of wisdom and love, fostering personal growth and transformation. Join us as we explore new ways of thinking and living in a world of complexity and diversity. Welcome back, everybody. My name is Christian, pronouns sheher.

Christopher:

My name is Chris, hehim.

Whitney:

My name is Whitney, pronouns sheher, and I feel fucking good.

Christian:

It's a good day in the neighborhood.

Whitney:

And I know that's not a pronoun, but call me that, and I'll answer it.

Christopher:

Yep. I'll

Whitney:

be like, I'll feel fucking good. I'll be like, yes.

Christian:

I love that I am. You. Alright. I feel fucking good.

Christopher:

Yep.

Christian:

Get us into our moment.

Whitney:

Yeah. So before we kick off, we're gonna do our regular mindfulness moment. So as usual, this is for the girlies who are somewhere stationary. If you are driving, please do not close your eyes. As wide open, beloveds.

Whitney:

But, you know, if you can also, you know, I would rather you keep your mind focused on the road. Maybe you revisit this once you get somewhere parked. But, also, if you ain't let pulled out yet, girl, just sit with us for a second before you hit that reverse. Yeah.

Christopher:

If you're late, you're gonna be late.

Christian:

Yeah. You know? And break some donuts

Whitney:

a little bit. You know that that is conflicting for me as a person that used to raise time and always would make it up. I don't know if I'm late if I'm always gonna be late. I'll be in late. And then I oh, but I also set out early because I got ADHD, so I got

Christian:

cushioned. Anything. There you go.

Whitney:

So okay. So for those of us who are able to, I want you all to either close your eyes or lower your gaze and just feel comfortable in your seat. Get grounded. Feel your feet on the floor or tucked under your legs wherever you are, and take a deep breath in together, and let it out slowly through the mouth. Do that again, and let it out slowly through your mouth.

Whitney:

And now I want you to picture yourself in front of a mirror, not the kind of mirror that reflects how the world sees you, but the one that will reveal your truest self, the you that sits beneath the expectations, underneath the filters, and beneath the need to perform. And as you stand before this mirror, ask yourself, what parts of me feel hidden? What masks do I wear to fit in, to feel safe, to be accepted? And just sit with that question. Let the answer come.

Whitney:

On the next inhale, I want you to imagine gently peeling away one of these masks. Don't judge it. Just see what sits underneath. Breathe in your truth, and then breathe out the pressure to be anything else. You are enough just as you are.

Whitney:

You are worthy just as you are. Your purpose here is not to heal, but to be. And as you return to this present moment, I want you to let this truth settle in your body. Carry it with you today. And we're gonna seal in this practice with one more collective breath in, and I want you to sigh it out this time.

Whitney:

So everybody deep inhale to seal it in. And on this exhale, let go everything that is misaligned with that. Alright. Let's get started.

Christopher:

Who would it go?

Christian:

I am enough. I'm holding. We are all enough. I am

Christopher:

Mhmm. That. Are you?

Christian:

Today, are you enough?

Christopher:

I am enough.

Christian:

You are enough. I knew you were Enough.

Whitney:

It. I knew Enough.

Christian:

You didn't see the Barbie movie?

Whitney:

I did. Oh. He is cannuff.

Christian:

So today, we are gonna be talking about authenticity in a filtered world and how societal expectations and social media encourage us to hide ourselves or to mask social media. Social media. So let's talk about masking.

Whitney:

Oh, Jesus.

Christian:

Let's talk about masking. So we have you know, obviously, when you're talking about people who are neurodivergent, there's the concept of masking. But I think that I don't think it's controversial to say that there are types of masking that all of us engage in, whether they're neurodivergent or diagnosed as neurodivergent or not.

Whitney:

Well and you often see it so just I actually I I was prepared today. I brought a definition.

Christian:

Here we go.

Whitney:

Masking refers to the conscious or unconscious suppression or alterations of one's natural behaviors, emotions, or traits to conform to societal expectations or avoid negative consequences, which I think speaks to what you were saying that we won't do it. It is often associated with neurodivergent individuals such as those of us with autism or ADHD who may mask traits to blend in with your neurotypical people and environment. But it can also occur in other contexts such as individuals hiding symptoms of mental illness, code switching, in marginal levels, communities Everything I know of. Or suppressing emotions in professional or social settings. And so while it can help with social acceptance, it can also lead to exhaustion, identity confusion, and mental health stroke.

Christopher:

Yes. All of that shit.

Whitney:

Say la. Yeah.

Christian:

Because everybody need to take a little breath again. We we started with breathing, but then we started singing. We might need to breathe again.

Whitney:

Yeah. And what what's interesting to me is that now imagine having intersectionality. Oh, girl.

Christopher:

Oh.

Christian:

I mean, as you were going down that list, I was like, okay. So code switching, like Mhmm. Because we're all black. So code switching is life. What it was.

Christian:

Was.

Whitney:

I was like, yeah. We we are black people who grew up under the protective concept of respectability policy.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

So there was a a need to present yourself in a very specific way Yes.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

Around certain types of authority, which I mean, a lot of us still do. Like, if you if I run into a cop, I'm aware that I am in more danger than a white person. Right.

Whitney:

We're going p p p p's.

Christian:

We're going all the way prostitute. Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, sir. Mhmm.

Christian:

I'm I'm doing it all. We're we're trying to get a I want to be a lot.

Whitney:

We're trying to

Christopher:

get them. My voice is a couple of actors lighter.

Christian:

Yeah. Hell, mine too.

Whitney:

You got ass.

Christian:

You go you go right. Yes, sir?

Whitney:

Yeah? Not not Woah. Well, I ain't gonna

Christopher:

do that. I'm not not Sambo.

Whitney:

Yeah. You know? Oh. I ain't no tabbing one.

Christian:

Raise the octave of my voice and not to make it sound stupid. I mean, it's not the point. It's like it wouldn't go farther than I intended.

Whitney:

I absolutely go into my presenter voice, which is Yes. It's way up here. Oh, yeah. So that's

Christian:

what I was trying to do, and I but

Whitney:

it's way up here because this sound actually carries faster. Like, it carries farther, and people are listening. We have a more energetic voice. Mhmm. Whereas, like, my natural voice is down here, and I realized I was a goofy voice as a little child, and who I am.

Christian:

So you got that. And then you're gonna add again, we all grew up in a in a Christian context. So there were lots of things. And then you that we weren't allowed to enjoy to be or were discouraged from enjoying, doing, being Right. In that church context Mhmm.

Christian:

As people. And then you add the extra layer of being, like, for for myself and Whitney of being women in that context. So there's even more stuff.

Christopher:

Alright. Oh,

Christian:

hold on. And then

Whitney:

My bad, I jumped.

Christian:

My bad. And then you add being queer or trying not to be queer. That one's for me. And then Yeah. Yeah.

Christian:

And then and then

Whitney:

I'm big bodied. And then I've been six feet tall. Right? Since Yeah. Forever.

Christian:

You know?

Whitney:

I was five, eleven and a half in the eighth grade, y'all.

Christian:

You know? Right. And I told I told I don't remember who Which

Whitney:

matters when you're a black woman.

Christopher:

It does.

Whitney:

It matters for your feminine. Oh. It matters for all the shit.

Christian:

It's for your safety.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Christian:

And then I've was it was it you I was telling that it took me years to unlearn the habit of sucking in my stomach? Yeah. We were just talking about that. Yeah.

Christopher:

Same.

Whitney:

Yeah. Same. Right?

Christian:

And so, like

Christopher:

that was like

Christian:

the ways that we try to core strength should

Whitney:

be on point at this point.

Christian:

I mean, you would think

Whitney:

muscle memory should be doing something.

Christian:

You would think. You

Christopher:

would think.

Whitney:

I mean, I'm decent at Pilates. No. Fresh out the gate.

Christopher:

I need to go to Pilates.

Christian:

I don't I'm not interested in Pilates.

Whitney:

I love a Pilate. Bless you.

Christopher:

Pilates will work will work wonderfully, man.

Whitney:

You used to love Pilates. What happened?

Christopher:

Was it HIIT?

Whitney:

Was it sciatica?

Christopher:

H I t.

Christian:

Oh, wait. Pilates. What?

Whitney:

No. High intensity

Christopher:

interval. When I met her, she was doing high intensity. Yeah.

Christian:

So he's he's Right. About a different time period.

Christopher:

Oh, okay.

Christian:

Y'all were talking about No. Absolutely. Yeah.

Christopher:

Gotcha.

Whitney:

So you're new here, Chris.

Christian:

Newer than you. You're new here.

Whitney:

Everybody's new compared to you. You're new here. I literally I'm gonna be saying that for the rest of our lives. Christopher, you're new here.

Christopher:

Alrighty. We'll

Christian:

be 80, and she you'll be like here. You're new here. Notice, miss. I was, what, 18? Doesn't matter.

Whitney:

He's new here because I've known you since you were zero, probably.

Christopher:

Fair enough.

Christian:

But why were we talking about hip?

Christopher:

No. Potential.

Christian:

Hip hip pilates matter.

Christopher:

Pilates.

Christian:

I stopped enjoying Pilates because my back was having issues.

Whitney:

Oh, that's because your core wasn't working.

Christian:

Well, but see, it I was doing Pilates. I was having I was having, like I've always y'all, I got so many body issues. We could talk we could talk about me masking all of my body issues today. Could. Like, if y'all you're talking about, like, I don't have, for the most part, a visible disability, but I absolutely have one.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

I have I'm used to the technical term, not to be weird, but so that you understand. I have patellofemoral arthritis

Christopher:

Oh, that's good.

Christian:

Which means that my kneecap is fucked.

Whitney:

And has been.

Christian:

And has been. I dislocated my knee for the first time at 12 and did it regularly up until I was in college. And the only reason it really stopped is because now I am hypervigilant about not allowing it to happen. Yeah. But there are times when I have flare ups, and I need a cane.

Christian:

And I would rather stay home than try to walk around with a cane because I don't want people thinking stuff. And, like, I don't have penalized ableism.

Christopher:

Oh, so Yeah.

Christian:

Be because, like, I don't have a disability placard because most of the time, I don't need a walking assistant. But, like, if I needed to go to the store, I need to be at the fucking front. I can barely function. Yeah. But Mhmm.

Christian:

You know, people see you walking, and then if I come back to the store in two days and I'm fine, you don't have a you look Man, I fucked them people. Oh, and I feel that way about going to dis disabled bathrooms because I really need the toilet to be higher. Yeah. That's Me and my knees, we Same, actually. Mhmm.

Whitney:

Just because I'm Me

Christian:

and my knees. Me and my knees, y'all.

Christopher:

Your knees did bring me to you. So there's that.

Whitney:

That well They did.

Christian:

Well, that's

Christopher:

In a in a most wholesome way.

Christian:

Need.

Whitney:

Well, gosh. Damn it, Christopher.

Christian:

You ruined everything. No. That's not true.

Whitney:

No. You didn't.

Christian:

But we actually had No.

Whitney:

That's real, though.

Christian:

Okay. I'm a tell this story as quickly as possible because this has come up three times already, and I still haven't told this story. So Chris and I met in college. We were in a gospel choir together. We were in a gospel choir together, and we were loosely friends.

Christian:

We both were from Houston, but we went to we went to college in a different town together. And so at the end in at the end of my second semester of freshman year, I dislocated my knee walking down some stairs in a classroom. I had to go to the hospital whole nine, but it was, like, right before finals. So I was like, I just wanna finish finals. I'll deal with my surgery later.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

And so I got moved. I was living on the Fourth Floor. They found a way to get me down to the First Floor, but, obviously, I couldn't really go nowhere. This is not a this is not not a disability, like, mobility friendly accessible. It is not an exam accessible campus.

Whitney:

Yeah. At least It's a very old

Christopher:

building in particular.

Christian:

And where the side of campus that I lived on, lots of cobblestones and shit. If it rains, if it drizzles, everything's slippery as fuck. So I was living in my room eating, you know, macaroni and cheese out of those little mac and cheese cups, oatmeal easy mac? Easy mac. Yeah.

Christian:

But in the cups. Right? Oatmeal, peanut butter and jelly. Anything that was, like, frozen Dorm room approved. Ramen that I cooked in the microwave.

Christian:

Yeah. So that's what I was eating. And so I'm going back and forth with Chris. I'm pretty sure we were on AIM because that's where

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

AIM. Heard back then. Mhmm. Mhmm. 02/2005 and or 02/2006 rather.

Christian:

And I'm talking, and he's like, what are you doing? And I was like, just sitting here bored because at the time, the roommate I had, she had gone home. It was the weekend. Mhmm. And I was like, yeah.

Christian:

I'm sitting here bored. I'm hungry, but I don't want any more of macaroni and cheese. And he was like, oh, what do you want? And I was like, man, I don't really want I don't even remember what we brought me. It was either a burger or chicken sandwich because we had Chick fil A on campus at the time.

Christian:

I don't even know if they still had that. But he was like, oh, I can bring it. And I was like, really? And he was like, yeah. Now we were we were loosely connected friends.

Christian:

Right? We saw each other Mhmm. On campus sometimes, and we saw each other at choir practice. And he was like, yeah. I can bring it.

Christian:

And I was like, oh, okay. So I knew it was, like, rainy, but I couldn't tell how much it was raining. I wasn't really paying attention. So maybe thirty, forty minutes later because he lived on the opposite. Opposite?

Christian:

Opposite side of campus, which is, like, normally, ten, fifteen minute walk.

Christopher:

Yeah. It's like, right.

Whitney:

Crazy. Yeah.

Christian:

But it it's a big campus. It's a big campus.

Christopher:

Last I said, it was thirty minutes.

Christian:

Was it thirty? It might it would

Christopher:

Probably into Sobeysa.

Whitney:

Thirty Minute walk? Yes. I was like, UT is bigger than a and m, and there's it's not a thirty minute walk.

Christopher:

It was

Christian:

raining. You gotta slow down when it's raining at a

Christopher:

and m.

Christian:

Because it's slick. Because because of the cobbles. Yeah. So Which

Whitney:

is true most like, PWI universities in Texas. Because Yeah.

Christopher:

For some

Whitney:

reason, they all got

Christian:

You know how we all are. We were all wearing fucking flip flops. So it was like you were trying Old

Whitney:

Navy flip flops. Old

Christian:

Navy flip.

Whitney:

At Just to be clear, children.

Christian:

Yeah. How many old Navy flip flops?

Whitney:

These were fashion. Were they? Every color. We all wore them. We coordinated these shits.

Christian:

We all did. And then they made the new ones that were made out of that shitty ass foam. Yeah. They were terrible. The old ones, the originals were the best.

Whitney:

That's true.

Christian:

And they came out with them secondary ones. And I'm like, what the fuck are y'all doing? Just stop it.

Whitney:

Anyway conserving cost, making profits.

Christian:

Yeah. That's what they did. And we bought a couple, and then I stopped because I was like, yeah. They don't hit like they used to. They don't wear in like they used to.

Christian:

They We used to wear holes

Whitney:

in the bottom of them shits. You couldn't do that anymore because the They were the things would come out.

Christian:

The the

Whitney:

the Like, the the Right. The thong part with the Yeah.

Christian:

That goes in between each other. I digress. So he 80. Yeah. That's a a thing in the thong, and

Whitney:

it would just pop off,

Christian:

and they don't make it

Whitney:

like they used to.

Christian:

That's what I just saw a post that they were saying, like, what's your millennial complaint? That's my millennial complaint. Change the old navy flip flops.

Whitney:

So many, and that's not

Christian:

the one.

Whitney:

I mean, I don't care anymore. Because I can't remember

Christian:

the last time I put on a flip flops. As a young person, this was important to me. Because they were cheap, and they were $3. They were cheap and comfy.

Whitney:

If you caught them on the sale, $1.

Christian:

I ain't never caught them on $1.

Whitney:

I usually pay in $3. July fourth sale.

Christian:

Yeah. No. So, anyway, Chris brings me my food. But when he gets to my door, he is drenched. I mean, dripping.

Christian:

Okay? Like, literal puddles onto my floor. And I'm like, oh my god. Why did you come now? I thought you were gonna wait till it, like, slowed down or stopped.

Christian:

Right? He said you said you were hungry. So he comes in. He brings me the food, and I'm like, this is the sweetest thing anybody's ever done to me. And we're not we are literally

Whitney:

just friends.

Christopher:

Yeah. We're just friends.

Whitney:

Okay. Yeah. Umbrellas.

Christian:

That was We're still I

Christopher:

didn't believe that. I don't believe in umbrellas.

Whitney:

We still

Christian:

don't really try to. Umbrellas.

Christopher:

She's like,

Whitney:

that's why your ass was soaking wet. It was. Goddamn floor. Dude. And now you're pushing forward.

Whitney:

It's still putting bottles on the floor.

Christian:

No. He does. He he doesn't come in soaking wet anymore because he has umbrellas because he has a wife and child, and our asses don't like to be wet. Yeah.

Whitney:

Turns out you don't wanna be sick. I love that.

Christian:

Mhmm. And then, you know, thoughts. Anyway, so he comes in the room

Christopher:

sick from being in the rain, so it is it.

Christian:

He

Whitney:

Okay. He didn't get sick. Must be nice.

Christian:

So he he comes in, and he's like, okay. I guess I'll leave now. And I was like, absolutely not. It's still pouring. So at that point, I could hear the rain.

Christian:

It had gotten so loud. And I'm like, you are literally dripping. Come in. And he's like, where can I sit? And I was like, we're not sitting anywhere in that.

Christian:

And so I was like, maybe you can fit some of my jeans because I back then, sweatpants were not a thing for me. Yeah. I didn't have any. To this day, I think I have, like, three pair, and they still don't look like normal people's sweatpants. And so I found a pair of jeans that were, like

Whitney:

Alien sweat.

Christian:

That were my quote, unquote I was like, these should fit because I'm like, he's not he wasn't big.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christian:

But I have a huge butt. So my my pants were bought to accommodate that, which was a which was a struggle in the low rise February. Okay.

Whitney:

Sure.

Christian:

Chris ain't got no booty, though.

Whitney:

And so Damn. You had to put them on blast lights.

Christian:

No. Because it's important to the story. Man. So so he gets the so I find these this pair of jeans that I'm like, I think are the straightest cut because I have a lot of bootcut jeans. I was like, that's gonna be weird.

Whitney:

So I was like, I gave him

Christian:

the straightest cut jeans I had. He put them on. He's like, wow. These are huge. And I was like, nigga.

Christian:

Shut? And he was like Did

Christopher:

I say these are huge? Or do at least fit me just fine. I don't have any problem.

Christian:

Not say that.

Whitney:

Okay. You

Christian:

did not

Whitney:

us the person who remembers the trauma. He doesn't even remember this happening.

Christian:

That's why I'm

Whitney:

telling you I remember this happening because I told you counted to me. Yeah.

Christopher:

See? Because

Christian:

I told you. Yeah.

Whitney:

Damn. You were there, my

Christopher:

nigga. Yeah. Yeah. I

Whitney:

didn't remember it. Crazy.

Christian:

And I've told him for act of love. I know. Right? And so Yeah.

Christopher:

It was like this.

Whitney:

Service.

Christian:

He he puts on the jeans, and he's like, well, I guess I'll go. And I gave him one of my shirts because, you know, you get a million free T shirts in college, so I had some shirts that would fit him. And so he's he just hangs out until it stops raining. Right? And then later, fast forward to after I have my surgery in the summer, he's like, hey.

Christian:

How are you doing? And I'm like, I'm alright, you know, recovering. He was like, hey. I wanted to bring you these jeans back. And so he brings the jeans to my parents' house because that's where I'm recovering.

Christian:

Mhmm. And my mom never forgot that. Oh. She Mhmm. Learned four things about him when he brought those genes, and she when I when we reconnected later, she was like, the one that lives in Casimir Gardens with his grandma that brought you back those genes after he had surgery.

Christian:

And I'm like,

Whitney:

but that's your mother, though. Yeah. It's very typical of your mom.

Christian:

Anyway, so this is how my my shitty, shitty knees

Whitney:

brought us to get there. Knees to keep us together.

Christopher:

But, you know, like you said.

Christian:

Whatever. So back to the mask.

Whitney:

And she did. She put mask and tape on her knee. I have hold it in place.

Christian:

I mean, thank

Christopher:

god, though.

Christian:

That's kinda what Denise tape is.

Whitney:

I mean, basically. It

Christian:

has happened. You're not you're not they have they have

Whitney:

I'm not new here. I was here when I was there with the disc located that hole at twelve. We was at the playground.

Christian:

We were at the playground.

Whitney:

With sister Dixon.

Christian:

With sister with the Dixons

Whitney:

All of them.

Christian:

During that Right. What we doing? It's like a home

Whitney:

Bible study situation. Synagogue? Yeah. No. I don't know.

Christian:

It was home Bible study.

Whitney:

It was, but I don't know if it was that one. Oh. Yeah.

Christopher:

I'm gonna say a note about authenticity. When you're authentic, you don't always have to remember what you've done.

Whitney:

That's real. That's

Christian:

real. There was no mask.

Whitney:

Listen.

Christian:

My husband is neurodivergent, but that was his kindness, he doesn't know how to mask that.

Christopher:

Mm-mm.

Whitney:

He can't. Because it's it's real to him.

Christian:

It is so real, and he has he cannot process why anybody would not do a thing. Like, when he came to me in the rain, I was like, I thought you would've waited. He was like, you weren't hungry. And I was like, but it's pouring. He's like, but you were hungry.

Whitney:

Hungry hurts.

Christian:

And I told you I was coming, so I came.

Christopher:

So I did.

Christian:

Yeah. I'm

Whitney:

a man of integrity.

Christopher:

I mean, the rain is an inconvenience, but it'll be alright.

Whitney:

But you know what's worse? Hunger.

Christopher:

Right. Dying of hunger in your room. Precious. So you can't go no

Christian:

I I had

Christopher:

But I'm

Christian:

But, again Damn. As we discussed last week, Whitney and Chris have a very different relationship to, like, having the type of food you wanna eat available than I do. Because I would've sucked it up and ate another peanut butter sandwich.

Whitney:

True. I would've not eaten. You would've for days. You would've sat

Christian:

there until you got something you wanted. Food aversion.

Christopher:

And I'm like, no. I know how it feels when I'm hungry. And then I don't like that.

Whitney:

Well, I was about to say, I think it's also more severe. So what this is fun context. Christian, as a youth, used to, like, have hunger meltdowns. Right? Like, over over fresh hunger.

Whitney:

Christian will be freshly hunger and now hungry, and now her whole attitude has changed. The vibe is off. Right?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

As a neurodivergent person, like, when I finally and I'm I think this is true of you too. Mhmm. What tell me if it's not. But when I finally realize I'm hungry, I've been hungry for so long Yeah. That it is now a problem.

Whitney:

Like, I don't have enough fuel. And even then, I don't melt down. I just be like, I feel sick.

Christopher:

I'm sorry. I'm I'm like, I'm shaking.

Whitney:

Yes. It's literally like I'm shaking. Like, and that's why am I shaking?

Christopher:

Right. And I noticed my mood change, so I over correct Yes. And, like, shut down, you you know, and

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

Interact at all. Right. I'm very pissed.

Whitney:

Oh, man. See, I don't I don't have the mood.

Christopher:

And I'm like, but I don't wanna explode on nobody.

Whitney:

Yeah. So

Christopher:

it's very much so so it's very much okay. Hold on, man.

Whitney:

Yeah. You're I

Christopher:

see what I see where this is going and I see where the outcome of it is. So let me just

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

Dial back and fall in the background.

Whitney:

Actually happened while we were recording. I left everything. He got so hungry at the end.

Christopher:

Right. Right.

Christian:

And in the last episode, he got quiet because that baby was too hungry. Literally, we

Whitney:

were at the end of like so Chris is also like our producer. And he was trying to, like, do all the things. And I was, like, just leave. Go eat. It'll be like, because we record here at my house.

Whitney:

And so I'm just like, it will be fine. Leave your shit. Go now. Right.

Christopher:

Go eat.

Christian:

Because when he goes Don't walk.

Christopher:

Right. Right. I was just like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian:

But, I mean so we have given you so many types of masking. We have. About a lot. But the the point was that when we are doing all these types of contortions Yeah. To ourselves, to present ourselves in a specific way for whatever reason, what kinds of effects does this have on us?

Whitney:

Man, hold up.

Christopher:

It's a good meal. That's for damn sure.

Whitney:

You say it's a good meal?

Christopher:

You miss a good meal.

Christian:

Oh, miss a meal.

Whitney:

No, but dead ass. Right. Like, so this is so it's really interesting. So I hashtag late stage diagnosed ADHD. Right?

Whitney:

And so I think there were so many ways in which like, I'm here's the thing. I think the people who know me would all agree that, like like, there's a consensus. Right? Like, that, oh, this is how it is. And that is not necessarily a false self.

Whitney:

Mhmm. Right?

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

It is for me when I was upholding that self when that self wasn't true in the moment. Right? And so, like, yes. I am crazy. I'm gonna say the most off the wall things.

Whitney:

I also might say something really prolific and profound and be like, what the fuck did I say? That is very Whitney. Yes. Very quintessential. But or, like, I am pretty, like, happy go lucky in general, but I also let injustice happen, and I'm ready to flip tables.

Whitney:

Like like like, literally flip a table. I'm ready to go off Mhmm. Behind injustice. Right? But there are these moments in which like, especially, I think, for me in work environments, particularly work environments where the people at the helm were not how does one say this nicely or accurately?

Whitney:

But people at the helm were still functioning very much within the constructs of white supremacy.

Christian:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

So regardless of their racial identification

Christian:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Like, they this is how we do the thing. Right? And not only white supremacy, but also, like, neurotypicalness. Right? Like, there's this this capitalistic idea that, like, you should be hyper productive and all of these things.

Whitney:

Right? Right. And so I spent a lot of my life. My youth, I actually was really hyper productive.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

You you were. Yeah. I mean I'm still pretty fucking productive, but

Christian:

but, like, but in a in a way that, like, you weren't doing it to make me feel bad about myself, but I would be like, damn. We need to do it. I could do some more. Like, please don't.

Whitney:

Because eventually, I got very tired. Like, I burned out really early on. I burned and I burned out a couple of times because masking is also exhausting. There we go. Mhmm.

Whitney:

And so, like, I I remember my first burnout. I think I had my first burnout. How old was I? I wasn't even married yet. So I, like, I got married at 25.

Whitney:

So I burned out the first time, I think, at 24

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And had to career change then. So my first Wow. Career, like Mhmm. That's early. Quarter life for real.

Whitney:

Hell, yeah. And it was it was bad, like, to the point where, like, I had chronic fatigue fatigue fatigue syndrome and couldn't like, I had to leave my job because I couldn't get out of my bed. Mhmm. Wow. Do you remember this?

Whitney:

I remember you coming to, like, stay with me a week in my apartment and, like, us just sitting on the couch every morning saying nothing. And I was like, this is the best thing ever. Because, like, I just did it. I didn't have it. I didn't have the words.

Whitney:

I felt horrible because I was such an energizer buddy. Yeah. And to, like, go from that to

Christian:

Zero to 60. Yeah.

Whitney:

60 to zero. Right? Mhmm. In addition to that, like, I grew up with, like, high functioning depression. Mhmm.

Whitney:

And, like, it's crazy the amount of people. Because I've, like, since told the story. Now I so my last bout with of depression I had terrible depression. So my last bout of depression was twenty it's been well over ten years because I learned some things in that one that I was like, oh, I get it. Like, I I am I know how to ground in myself now.

Whitney:

Okay. Cool. But up, like, from a young child

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Up. Right? And Mhmm. People never

Christian:

knew. Yeah.

Whitney:

And, like, friends, like, when I finally Depression. Yeah. So, like, I finally, I guess, revealed that about myself around the time that this is gonna be the second time this man comes up in our podcast. I don't know if he's made the cut. But, like, Robin Williams.

Whitney:

So when Rob Robin Williams died by suicide, and everybody was so shocked. Right. Right? Because of his presentation. Like, I remember making a Facebook post because everybody was like, check on your friends.

Whitney:

Or no. Reach out if you need help. Reach out if you need help. And I was like, that's not real. Like Right.

Whitney:

As a person that is eldest daughter, bomb ass friend, like, I am all things to all people, it doesn't always feel like at the time. Right? Different now. But, like, at the time, I was like, it doesn't always feel like I can reach out because I don't know how.

Christopher:

Mhmm. Right.

Whitney:

It's so heavy. I can't even see where the fuck is out.

Christopher:

Yeah. Right.

Whitney:

And so many friends were like, I had no idea. You just seem so happy.

Christian:

Right? I remember

Whitney:

one of my my one of my closest friend's moms reached out to me and was like, well, you could talk about this at, like, my church? Because I don't think she's like, I had no clue. And she like, she grew up with me. Right?

Christian:

Like Right.

Whitney:

They lived a block over. I was always at their house. And people just had no idea how bad it was. Like, I remember as an adult have like, I have recounted my suicide attempts to my mother. Mhmm.

Whitney:

And my mom is like, wow. And it's not because my like my mom knew I was depressed. She didn't know how bad it was. Yeah.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

You know? And like she kept trying, like, do you wanna go therapy? And I was like, yo, this was the nineties. Like Right.

Christian:

It was not nineties. Nineties.

Whitney:

It was. And I was just like, no. I don't wanna do that because, like, also I feel like you when you when you otherwise use therapy as a weapon, don't then try to turn around and make it a tool. Like, that doesn't work for me.

Christopher:

Oh, man.

Whitney:

Yeah. And so, like, I didn't perceive it that way. And so it's it was just one of those things where I learned really early on. A, not to make people worry about you.

Christian:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Whitney:

But also, like, don't show your hand.

Christian:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right? So like, it's not safe to say I'm sad all the time.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Because you might get a what now what you got to be sad about?

Christopher:

Right. It's though yeah. If if you're too young to be sad

Christian:

Right. Ain't nothing wrong with you. Right. And I'm like, I'm

Christopher:

Bills is paid.

Whitney:

To to and I'm gonna say this because I also know my mom. Listen, my mom is one of our top supporters. Okay? My mom will be really out here debriefing with me like she remember shit. I'm like, mama, I just talked about that on the podcast.

Whitney:

You don't remember that. Your memory sucks. But it I will say, my mom never approached me like that in the light. Yeah. What you got to be mad about?

Whitney:

Like, my mom is a Pisces, very watery. Just it's all feelings all the time. Right? And so she's just just very concerned about my a little too concerned sometimes, about my feelings Mhmm. Or just, like, feelings as a concept.

Whitney:

But, like, other people. Right? Like, I I remember recounting recently to my sibling a story about a lady that we grew up with your god sister's mother. Uh-huh. My who was effectively like a married and aunt to me.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney:

Like, from the age of three, I remember this woman criticizing me.

Christopher:

Oh. Yeah.

Christian:

Not for us.

Christopher:

Yeah. That's nice.

Whitney:

Yeah. And so, like, all the way up and, like, all the things that I've been called. Right? And I don't think, like, I I know she loves me. And I know she doesn't, like, she didn't mean any harm, but harm was done.

Whitney:

Yeah. And it was just like, okay. Well, you can't tell people how you really feel.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And you can't, like, these are all the ways in which because then you're gonna get slapped with all these labels that honestly are just not appropriate to the situation. I just don't fit what you want me to fit right now. Yeah. Right? Like, I don't wanna share this popsicle because germs.

Whitney:

Because also, I'm a I've been a germ myself my whole life.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

I don't wanna share this popsicle with your kid But now you because of germs. Like, I think we could go and get a knife and and cut this apart. And you telling me, oh, don't you know cold kills all bacteria? No, bitch. I'm seven.

Whitney:

I don't know that. Right. Like, also, that's not true. Doesn't. And so you're a liar.

Whitney:

But and then I get called selfish. And so then I spend the rest of my life

Christian:

Thinking you're selfish.

Whitney:

No. Trying to go out of my way to not seem selfish Mhmm. From, like, being so selfless that I am, like, denying myself my own boundaries.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Right? And so, like and and you said that shit when I was seven. Right? And so it's one of those things. And so as I have grown I'm I feel like I'm rambling.

Whitney:

But as I have grown older, certain masks just kinda fall off. Right? Yeah. It's like, I just the older I get, the more bereft of fucks I give.

Christian:

I'm just I'm just I'm bereft of fucks.

Whitney:

I have none. And it's crazy how you get older, you'd be like, oh my god. I still had a fuck left. Well, let's get rid of that. Let's

Christopher:

Right. Right. Let's do I was like,

Whitney:

what happened in that corner? Bitch, come on out of there. Let's think Come on out of there. And so Right. For me, who is pushing 40 like, I'm in my fortieth year of life.

Whitney:

Mhmm. Haven't crossed the line yet, but we are there.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And my last kind of bastion was, like, work. Right? So I'm like, okay. I'm gonna show up. I can be vulnerable with my friends.

Whitney:

I can say I am sad. I can say I'm not okay. You know, like, I I my self identity is actually pretty fucking strong. Like, you know, but imposter syndrome, which is really just internalized white supremacy For black people. Yeah.

Whitney:

Right. Well, even for not black people, like, because when you think about, like, white women who experience it, like, it's also, like, patriarchy. Right? Mhmm. So it's a system as a shit.

Whitney:

Right? Like, you're internalizing these messages that, oh my god, you might not think I'm enough. Am I not enough? Like

Christian:

Right.

Whitney:

And so I was still moving in work environments, like, knowing that I'm full well fucking competent. Right.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

But just because I may not say it like you or just because we have different priorities. Right. Because that, I will very much acknowledge that is my truth. I prioritize people over everything.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And I will not

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Apologize for that. Right.

Christopher:

Same.

Whitney:

Like, I won't adjust for that. I don't give a shit about your bottom line.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Like, your that's not true. Your bottom line doesn't trump people though. There you go. Right. Yeah.

Whitney:

Right?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

You're gonna make it work, but it needs to work for the people first Right. And then for the purse.

Christopher:

This and and I think this is why, bringing in current event, why I have such an issue with conservative initiatives to address American problems, the conservative problems. Because conservatives, historically speaking, have chosen the worst kind of methodology in every sense.

Whitney:

Because they're coming up to list.

Christopher:

Ban abortion. Deport immigrants. It's like What about the people? These are not not just people, but like you said, these are these are people. Yeah.

Christopher:

Not only that, this is a very impractical approach. Yeah. Because the other ways are actually cheaper. Yep. If you actually care about the fucking bottom line

Whitney:

Absolutely.

Christopher:

The actually cheaper way to do it that also honors the humanity of the people that is involved.

Whitney:

But the thing is is they don't acknowledge the humanity of the people involved.

Christian:

It's very

Whitney:

much us versus them. Right? Like, you when you dehumanize people, you no longer are responsible for caring for them.

Christopher:

Right. And so capitalism actually becomes more expensive.

Christian:

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Whitney:

Like, which is so interesting. You know, I'm not gonna get my soapbox. I have a whole soapbox about Yeah. Invention and, like, social programming. And and it's not just a soapbox, but I, like, worked in these rooms for years.

Whitney:

Well, I have to pay for it. Cheaper. But it's it's one of those things. And so because when you are working in spaces with people who lead from space of capitalism, white supremacy, those types of things, they value other things. Right.

Whitney:

And then you become the fluffy person. And I'm like Right. Bitch, I'm anything but. Let let me be clear. Like, I that was my horrible about my impression.

Whitney:

But I am anything Let me be clear. But, like, a soft ass, fluffy ass bitch.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

I am

Whitney:

a loving like, love is my top. Right? Like, if Right. We're not doing it with love, don't do it. Yeah.

Whitney:

And that's what everything is.

Christopher:

Love is smart. Listen. Let's just Grow. Love is intelligent. Like

Whitney:

Truly.

Christopher:

It is

Whitney:

Here's the thing. It's a less valued intelligence when your dollar is the most valued thing to you. Absolutely. Because love gets in the way of your dollar.

Christopher:

It does.

Whitney:

Love can get in the way of your dollar.

Christopher:

Yep.

Christian:

Love can yes.

Whitney:

It also can get in the way of your fucking ego. That part.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

That part. And that, I think, love is a barrier to unbridled power and wealth. Correct. And that is inconvenient for a

Whitney:

large company. Your whatever your definition of success is. Right? And so, like, if you wanna be power. Right?

Whitney:

And so, like, if you wanna be the top, you wanna be which is crazy to me. The people that work in nonprofit spaces who are struggling to be the top nonprofit bitch. Bitch, just hello? That's

Christopher:

not gonna

Christian:

be the point of this. Right.

Whitney:

But nonprofit industrial complex. And so it's it's one of those things where it's just like, I didn't feel like I could be myself in these places and still be seen as intelligent if I cared. But I couldn't turn off caring. Yep. Right.

Christian:

Like I

Whitney:

it's not like a choice. It is not a choice for me.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And so what ended up happening is my body fought back. Mhmm.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And so not only did I struggle with depression the majority of my life up until over ten years ago, anxiety Yeah. Mhmm. Followed me. Has recently stopped following me.

Christian:

Bless God.

Whitney:

In in what the last maybe like us eight or nine months. And, like, 2023, I spent the entire year in and out of treatment centers. Yeah. You did. Hospitals.

Whitney:

The end of twenty twenty two

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Which is crazy. I was just telling this to Jess who it's mentioned all the time because she is, like, my my other best friend who is, like, Christian and I's mutual good friend. Yeah. Hey, Jess. Hey, girl.

Whitney:

But I was just telling Jess, we did a a road trip for our Mhmm. It was sweet. We were two days apart in birthday. So same year, same month, two days apart. So we we celebrate like twins.

Whitney:

And Christian normally comes in like the little sister, but now Christian got a kid.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And I love my kid. I blame you, Christopher.

Christopher:

I

Christian:

mean, we love you. You've ruined all my fun.

Christopher:

Wow.

Whitney:

You're the fun ruiner.

Christopher:

That is

Whitney:

But we love you so much.

Christopher:

That is very antithetical to my person, but okay.

Whitney:

You should have to know that I was also pointing aggressively.

Christian:

Right. Right. Chris, who's kidding? Let me know you like. This is the least likely person to ruin the fun.

Christian:

That's true. But did he help you?

Christopher:

But you have to say that you wanna have fun. But he fun and I can accommodate. No.

Whitney:

You've you've made her a mom. Oh.

Christopher:

Yeah. So

Christian:

it's it's over. We'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll get We'll resume later. We'll get into we'll get into why that is a thing. It's technically not Chris's fault. No.

Whitney:

It's not.

Christian:

It's not. It's not Chris's fault. It's my fault, but it is because we have a kid. Yes. So it's like

Christopher:

It's like, yeah.

Whitney:

Collectively, you two people have made decisions that have ruined my good day. You suck. Why am I even here? I'm just kidding.

Christopher:

So happy to oblige.

Whitney:

But So in 2022, Jessica and I normally, like, we would do international trips. Jessica doesn't live in the same state as us. So we meet up wherever in the world, and we, like, have a good time. We've got tons of pictures. It's amazing.

Christian:

We do.

Whitney:

We've had a ball.

Christian:

We've had some really good times. Yeah. And they've had some good times since my Hello. Motherhood. Descent into mother.

Christopher:

That's right. Wonderful.

Whitney:

But so we went and we did a trip to Sedona that yo. Changed my life. This this when I tracked my

Christopher:

to go to Sedona when I was in Phoenix, and I hit You

Whitney:

should have. It's only, like, what, an hour away?

Christopher:

Yeah. They they weren't they weren't with they weren't with it. I was It

Christian:

was a company trip?

Christopher:

Oh, with the seminary.

Whitney:

Oh. Yeah. So Yeah. Not everyone. Yeah.

Whitney:

I was a wire now.

Christian:

Yeah. But it was a trip what what about the trip?

Whitney:

Yeah. And so, like, it was a life changing trip. I got to scream into a vortex, and I literally looked at Jess and I was like, girl, I think I shook something loose. Turns out, that was the moment I got set on the trajectory I am on now. But two months after that, three days before Christmas, I'm at the doctor because I feel like I'm dying.

Whitney:

Yeah. And then I have to go to the ER because the doctor told me to. Yeah. Turns out, I was not dying acutely, like, in that moment. Right.

Whitney:

But my cardiologist I have a whole team of specialists to this day because of all of the stress that my body was under and all of the things that was happening in my body. My cardiologist looked at me because I was like, my heart is not like, my heart doesn't work. And she's like, we've run the test, and I kept running them. Then she was like, your heart is actually functioning fine. The problem is, like, it's like your body is trying to go from here to El Paso on zero.

Whitney:

Oh. Like, you don't have enough gas in your tank for a variety of medical reasons and which some of them are, okay, chronic, but exacerbated because of how much stress I was You're under.

Christian:

Yeah. Right.

Whitney:

To the, like, sheer amount of anxiety. So between work, between my personal life, like, everything was just and so, like, literally, in the the last day of 2022, I made a one decision that changed a lot. And then I, like, kept in this job. And I remember August of twenty twenty three, I had planned to leave that job.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah. I remember.

Whitney:

And I was I was planning to figure out how

Christian:

I was so excited. I was so excited you were leaving because you seemed like you were just shriveling. I hated it.

Whitney:

But, like, I didn't hate it. It was Yeah. It was like, I loved my coworkers. One of whom also top fan. Hey, Mel.

Whitney:

I know she's gonna hear it.

Christopher:

Hello, Mel.

Whitney:

But, like, I loved I worked with amazing people.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

We did amazing work. We had horrible leadership. Yeah. To the point and I when I started, I had great leadership. Yeah.

Christian:

And then it shifted. And then my leader left. Yeah.

Whitney:

And left the wrong one with us. And I know she listened to hurt me say this shit. Because that's that's what everybody thinks. We talked about you. No.

Whitney:

Let me let me not. We can cut that. We don't have to cut that out. She ain't gonna listen. But and, like, in honesty, I think it's it's also she comes with her own lens and her own shit.

Whitney:

Right? So it was just it was horrible. And then I realized, oh, this is why the people that have been reporting to you have been stressed and looked terrible because, like, you're not good at this, and your expectations are

Christopher:

Unreasonable.

Whitney:

Outrageous. And and I had the moment where the cognitive dissonance

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Started to, like, harmonize. And I was like, bitch, it's not you.

Christian:

Right. Right.

Whitney:

And I was like, oh, shit. And so I plan to leave in August of twenty twenty three. We ended up getting a new c suite person because I was director level. So we ended up getting a new c suite c suite person that I was hopeful about. And so I was like, okay.

Whitney:

Let me give it some more time. Not not Wow. Not and then I gave up hope.

Christopher:

Somebody immediately.

Whitney:

Because the Not many days. One is the devil you know, but that devil is direct. The other is the devil you don't know because that devil throws rocks in high hands.

Christian:

High hands. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And I

Whitney:

don't believe in that. I ain't never hit a hand a day in my life. Mhmm. I'm I'm a throw the rocket. I'm a wave.

Whitney:

It's very much my style.

Christopher:

Oh, yeah. Exactly. Hey.

Whitney:

Yeah. Bitch, I threw it. Twisting. Come talk about it.

Christopher:

Deal with it.

Whitney:

Like, I I was trying to get your attention. Come here. Right? Like, that's yeah. And so I don't fuck with that.

Whitney:

But it got to the point where we did some restructuring. And at the end of twenty twenty three, like, they were changing all of the director level position. Yeah. Yeah. And they were like, well, I envision you in this position.

Whitney:

I was like, you literally took my favorite part of my job away

Christian:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And gave me the part that I hate the most. Right. I'm not doing it. So when we got back in 2024, I was like, oh, I'm not gonna transition into this role. Mine is being eliminated, so I'm just gonna go when it's eliminated.

Whitney:

Right? Yep. Which was supposed to be August of twenty twenty four. Could make it.

Christopher:

Oh, man.

Whitney:

And and it it it got so in my face. And I've talked about this before on the podcast. Like, it got so in my face. Mhmm. Not only with my health.

Whitney:

Like, my health was You're struggling. Declining. I was scared.

Christian:

I was scared. I I wasn't living it, and I was scared.

Whitney:

Yeah. And so and at the time, who I was living with was, like, scared and wasn't telling me. And then I, like, started to know. I was like, what's going on? They were like, I am afraid you're going to collapse.

Whitney:

Yeah. Like, I'm afraid I'm gonna walk in here and find you

Christian:

laying on on the floor. And I was like,

Whitney:

I couldn't say nothing because that wasn't improbable. You know? That's how I felt. Right. Like

Christopher:

Inside.

Christian:

Yeah. It was time. Yeah.

Whitney:

I couldn't tell. Like, I couldn't I mean, I couldn't I couldn't dispute it.

Christopher:

Yeah. Right.

Whitney:

Right? And it was just like, you know what? I mean and I I remember there was an event that happened and the stress had hit a peak. Yep. And I remember I called my mother, which I'm hyper independent.

Whitney:

That is not a thing I do. Like, I don't like, I call my mom to check on her. Like, we talk. Right? But I don't call my mom for advice.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney:

Yeah. Or call my mom. I don't maybe advice depending on what it is. But, like, not for reassurance. Yeah.

Whitney:

For comfort. Yeah. But not for reassurance. Like, not for a you're making of the right decision.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Because we have very different decision making processes. Sure. Sure.

Christopher:

We do.

Whitney:

And we function from different places. Both valid. Yep. And I remember I after getting off the phone and hashing out the situation, I called my mom. That's how intense it was for me.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And I I felt like all of I felt like God, all my guides were like, it's time. It's time. I called my mom. My mom who is like super rule follower, very, like, pragmatic, feet on the ground, which I don't understand any of that. I'm a floaty.

Whitney:

Okay? I'm a air sign through and through. And so but even my mom was like, hey. Stop working today. She was like, stop.

Whitney:

Don't do any more work for them people today. Wow. You need to go sit and pray. And I was, like, telling her all the things that I have been processing. And she was like, it sounds like your mind is made up.

Whitney:

Mhmm. You need to do what you need to do. She's like, god got you. We're gonna figure this out. Do what you need to do.

Whitney:

Never have I ever heard these things from my mother. Like, not not in regards to, like, my livelihood. Yeah.

Christopher:

Right. Right.

Whitney:

Because my mom's just she's scared. Right? Like, it comes to I I love you.

Christopher:

She's feeling.

Whitney:

I love you, mom. Like, you you tend to fear.

Christopher:

She's concerned.

Whitney:

Yes. My mom is very much a concerned parent. More so as an adult, which is crazy. But she is. My mom, like, is always she's a mom.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

She's a mom. And yeah. And then I let and it's yo. The way my anxiety has let me let me actually I'm gonna reframe that. The anxiety I was experiencing Yeah.

Christian:

Has

Whitney:

dissipated. Like, I can't even tell you the last time I was anxious, which is a new normal for Whitney. That's a that's a big word for Elmo. But also my health has improved quite a bit. Oh my god.

Whitney:

Yeah. Quite a bit. So manageable. And like and when I say, oh, it's manageable. Like, I gotta forget.

Whitney:

I'd be like, oh, shit. Yeah, girl. Like like like, you still gotta do things, but like, I feel alive. Mhmm. Yeah.

Whitney:

I feel aligned. Mhmm. Right? And even though things don't look like masked Whitney, Whitney who could do everything, Whitney who had it all figured out, Whitney who is a natural born leader, Whitney who can like, this, like, high performance Whitney. Right.

Whitney:

High performance Whitney. High per I mean

Christian:

I mean, but that that seems accurate. When you say it, it sounds ridiculous. But Right. But that's Right.

Whitney:

Functioning at a hundred all the time, like, when you only 10 RPMs. Yeah. You know, all the time. I feel like 10 is highest.

Christopher:

10,000 RPM.

Whitney:

Okay. That because it's thousands. I okay. I should get the single digits. I'd be

Christian:

looking at that. The actual It's all good.

Christopher:

Right. Right. It was fine. We I knew Drew saying.

Christian:

You know what? Thank you, brother. Mhmm. Thank you, sister. Yeah.

Christian:

We'll let you roll with it. I appreciate y'all. But if you're a car nut out there and you happen to be listening to us, you all know

Christopher:

That's what she meant.

Whitney:

You know what the unity is.

Christian:

You know what she meant. Keep going. But you know the

Whitney:

buck up. Anyway, but going from that to, like, more of a sustainable pace and not feeling bad about it. Damn. Because I used to not sleep. Christian literally would call and be like, did you when was the last time you slept?

Whitney:

I did. Christian and I remember you telling me at some point, this is probably around 2018, you were like, yeah. I just trust that, like, when you've been up for days like this, that your body eventually collapses and you get the rest that you need. And you may go down for a day or two, but your body will get the rest. And I just I just wait for that moment.

Whitney:

Like, I was like, oh, shit. Christian Christian's concerned. Yes.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

It was. Because Christian doesn't always express her concern directly to you.

Christian:

No. No. You know? Me.

Whitney:

Me and my masking. I mean, like Uh-huh.

Christian:

The your journey is so I can imagine that this is gonna be incredibly relatable for a lot of people. Not, like, your exact journey, but just the process of realizing how much you have been turning yourself inside out to prove something. Yep. Or to present yourself as something specific in order to feel valuable, validated

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

Worthy, loved.

Whitney:

All the things. Right? Worthy of the breath in my body.

Christian:

And, like, it literally sucks you dry.

Whitney:

Uh-huh.

Christian:

Like a like an like an actual vampire just just latched onto your neck sucking you dry. Absolutely. And I mean, on the verge of, like, as your partner said, making you collapse. Yeah. Having you laid out or, you know, back in back in in 2018, were you still were you in school in

Christopher:

2018?

Whitney:

I just started school.

Christian:

Yeah. That was when I was no. One of the periods with which I was extremely worried.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah. In grad school, taking an overload of courses, working two jobs, starting a new organization. Yes. I was I was Wow.

Christian:

I was baffled. I was so baffled.

Whitney:

And in a new relationship.

Christian:

Oh, that. We started dating in In 2018. Yep. The year we got married. I didn't really Yeah.

Whitney:

Because it was new because when I brought her I brought her to your wedding.

Christian:

I remember I didn't remember it started then. That's what I'm saying. Like, I know she Yeah. A few months. Yeah.

Christian:

She was at the wedding, but I didn't realize it had just started then. Yeah. But it's, like, the journeys that we go on as we're trying to project a certain type of person, right, because of what one individual or society at large thinks we should be or look like. It is very rarely life giving. Yeah.

Christian:

Very rarely. And more often than not, it makes us sad, anxious, depressed, burnout, which I have been to all of those places. Yeah. You know, and A couple times.

Whitney:

For me. Yeah. Yeah. I've and

Christian:

the the thing that kinda struck me is, you know, when you're talking about, like, coming what you feel like you're coming out of a lot of those masking tendencies and the freedom that you're feeling, the more that you do it Mhmm. That is that's, like, hopeful. Right? Because it's it's a I don't feel like crying because that's not gonna translate well over over the mic. I don't feel me too.

Whitney:

Fuck some people. We're here.

Christopher:

So we're not edit out. We have a good edit out.

Whitney:

No. But fuck that. You're with us, and this is real. Me too. It's about tissue right now.

Christian:

It is hopeful. Right? Because and I've talked about this. I don't know if I talked about it on podcast or somewhere else. But there is a lot of me that, like, I don't I don't even know who she is.

Christian:

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, I'm not aware of what Christian wanted. So when you did that let me call it a warm up, not the warm up, the the Zen thing, the centering moment.

Christian:

Yeah. And you were like for

Christopher:

this moment. Yeah.

Christian:

Yeah. When you were like, look in the mirror and see who you really are, and I'm like, girl, who the fuck is that? I don't know who's back there.

Whitney:

Yeah. I

Christian:

have no idea. None. Yeah. None. And, like, that is the idea that you can there is a a pathway to come out of that and, like, you can walk it Mhmm.

Christopher:

And you

Christian:

can go through it and, like, find the other side and see who that person is.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

You know, because as you when you started, I couldn't really picture anything. And then you said something about peeling something off. And I was like, I can imagine the thing that I have started to peel off. Yeah. Which is a lot of the requirements placed on me by the faith practice that I was in.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

I have started to peel some of those off, and I do feel, like, more self possessed.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christian:

But it still feels very, like, small. So initially, when you say, like, the girl like, who who's back there without all the stuff? And I was like, probably like an eight year old because that's the last time. Yes. Felt like most of me.

Christian:

You know? That was that was before my mom was worried about whether or not my clothes was too tight because my butt jiggled. That was before my dad worried about whether or not I was wearing skirts that was too short. Like, that was, like, the last time that I got to just be me. Yeah.

Christian:

And that there weren't all these and, I mean, there were still a bunch of religious requirements, but there weren't as many that I had to worry about.

Whitney:

Yeah. Right? You weren't being policed.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

I wasn't I was not being actively, and, like, I was not being actively policed or at least I wasn't aware of

Whitney:

it. Correct.

Christian:

Right? That that's the Correct. Because I can't say that I wasn't.

Whitney:

No. That's that's fair. We were all being policed from

Christopher:

what young age.

Christian:

We were

Christopher:

I was just telling Sean.

Christian:

Yeah. So that's a that that that is hopeful. Mhmm. What you what you said is hopeful to me. Yeah.

Christian:

Because it's like, okay. There is a there is an opportunity for this to not be like this. Yeah. Right. You know?

Whitney:

Yeah. It's so What's interesting and we can cut this out. I actually recently ran your numerology number.

Christian:

Oh, okay. I I don't know what that means.

Whitney:

I know. We'll talk about it later.

Christopher:

When I look and see it just kidding.

Whitney:

Well, I can add. You can run anybody's number if you got the whole birth.

Christopher:

I'm just kidding.

Whitney:

But and I read it and I was like, this makes sense, but this ain't it yet. And I was like and there's so many times, like, I've over the course of time because you're one of those people for me, like, I know you. Yes. And I'm not a sign because that's hard.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Like, I know you. And there are ways in which I know you that I wish you knew yourself.

Christian:

You sound like him. And, yeah, that that tracks. That very much tracks. Right?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Like, I think back to, oh, god. I think back to conversations of what we used to have when we were younger. And you would be like, I'm just I don't know. I'm not creative. And I'd be like, Christian, that's not true.

Christian:

No. It's not true.

Whitney:

And you would be like, but how? And I've you're you're finally coming to it. Yeah.

Christian:

No. I am I I enjoy a specific type of creativity Yeah. Which I didn't recognize back

Whitney:

then. Exactly. But there are so many pieces. And I'm like, the thing is and I and, like, sometimes there are moments where it hisses me off. Like, because I'm just very like, let it go.

Whitney:

Like, it's

Christopher:

it's Elsa.

Whitney:

Let it go. Right? Like, turn it loose. But, like, the this you're so contained. Yes.

Whitney:

Right? And you're so comfort focused

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

That like the need to control everything that could make you discomfort, like uncomfortable Yeah. Keeps you in this thing. And I'm just like, sometimes I just look at you and I'm like, she'll get it.

Christian:

Yeah. And so I've been She'll get it. That's the other part of

Christopher:

it. Yeah.

Christian:

Right? Like, masking, don't get me wrong. It can it can it it is draining, but for me personally, there is a safety in it For most people. Right? There is a there a comfort in it of, you know, like, I'm obviously straight present I'm obviously, to the people in this room.

Christian:

I am straight presenting, like, probably even more than you now with your girl. But well, and I gotta

Whitney:

get more nose rings. That's what I've learned.

Christian:

So It's good. The nose ring. I need

Christopher:

You gotta you need septum. Yeah.

Whitney:

Get a double on

Christian:

the on

Whitney:

this nostril. I gotta get more and more.

Christian:

I saw a video of a lady who was, like, 65 or something, and she was finally getting her nose pierced. She'd wanted it for, like, forty years. Damn. And she she finally got it. And after she did it, she was like, I can't believe I waited so long to do this.

Christian:

This is amazing. Thank you so much. Like, she was so excited. I love it. But, like, there was a like, oh, but there's a level of comfort in it.

Christian:

And so there's a when I because I am a straight presenting person, like, I have to be intentional about, like, not letting people think that I am straight. Yeah. Which can be scary. Hell, yeah. I mean, especially in 2025.

Christian:

Like Mhmm. But also, I I I still I don't run around in the same Christian circles that I did when I was young, but, like, my parents are still in there. My sister's still in there to a degree. Right. You know?

Christian:

And so, like, they're they're my family is still there. Yeah. Right? Right. And I don't I am grateful that I am not under the impression that I am in a position where they're, like, gonna shun me or abandon me or treat me like garbage.

Christian:

Right. I never thought that I never thought that that they would abandon me or treat me like garbage, but I thought a lot of other things Yeah. That made me pursue, like, embrace the mask

Whitney:

Mhmm. Yeah. Aggressively. Yes. Right.

Christian:

In favor of not tempting fate, of not rocking the boat. That was my

Whitney:

favorite part. God damn it was.

Christian:

Not right I don't wanna rock the boat. I don't wanna rock the boat. I just wanna be chill and, you know, I'm working with my my therapist. I'm working I'm working up. But it there's so much of it.

Christian:

And, like, sorting through it to go, like, okay. Yes. This is comfortable. But, like, this isn't I know this isn't me. And so but I have to release some of it to realize that the comfort I'm feeling isn't the word I wanna say is real, but that's not the right word.

Christian:

The comfort that I am feeling is, like, in place of being self possessed.

Whitney:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Christian:

And that comfort is paired with, like, a emptiness, and it's like, that part ain't comfortable. Right? And so it's like, okay. So I'm gonna have to like, I'm slowly trying to trade the the the empty comfort for the self possessed discomfort

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

Which will eventually become a different type of, like It'll be comfort. Embodiment.

Whitney:

It'll it'll, like, actually be comfort.

Christian:

That will be real Yes. Real comfort.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

That's, like, the process that I'm working through with this. And, like, yes. Obviously, like, social media is a I'll say this. I don't I'm I'm probably one of the the most difficult to influence people on the planet Mhmm.

Whitney:

Like, regarding certain things, I think.

Christian:

Well, I mean certain ways. No. No. No. So, like, you know, if if it's like, oh, you put on makeup.

Christian:

I need to put on makeup. You bought this. I need to buy this. No. That's that's that's not how I'm getting it.

Christian:

Never. You said this book was good. I'm about to go read that book. Yes. But other than that, you know, there it you're right.

Christian:

In certain ways. Mhmm. But, like, I'm not always looking at other people and thinking I need to be like those people. Yes. My thing is more like, I want to be the person that you like.

Christian:

I want to be the person that you want around. I want to be the person that you're going to treat this way. And so if I see you treat other people badly for a thing or talk about them for a thing, if I feel or think what they also thought and felt and thought, I will not say that. Because I don't want you to treat me like you treat them. Right?

Christian:

So that that's the Mhmm. The difficulty when you're in online spaces and, like, aware of not only what people are doing, but how they're talking about other people. Yeah. It's just trying to, like, allow yourself to know who you are. I was watching this video just shared the other day.

Christian:

There's a guy who walks around in in in New York on a subway, and he, like, interviews people with hot takes.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

And this guy's hot take was, like, we should shut off the Internet on Sunday.

Whitney:

Oh, like, yeah. She did shut it.

Christian:

Yes. She did. She's like, we should shut off the Internet I agree. Sunday because we're we were never meant to have this much information twenty four seven. And I was like, you know

Whitney:

what? I agree.

Christopher:

I agree. We don't see put it down. Well, I don't wanna see any more of these livestreaming church shenanigans.

Whitney:

Well, jeez.

Christian:

Oh, I I I don't understand. That's not

Whitney:

the only thing.

Christopher:

I don't.

Whitney:

Go outside.

Christopher:

But that shit goes viral because they live streamed it, and then they went to fucking

Christian:

They say stupid stuff. Alright.

Christopher:

That's what

Whitney:

he goes by. Screenshot

Christian:

it in

Christopher:

the in the

Christian:

You don't even shit shit. He the one

Christopher:

who have

Christian:

to tell me about it.

Whitney:

It's good. Every time you be saying shit Mhmm. Christopher, that you be tired of seeing it, but you keep engaging it. So your algorithm don't never adjust.

Christopher:

And it's nice. And and I need it, and I use it because of it comes it comes through other content creators. So it's not like I get it. You know, I get the people that that content and and their filter and stuff like that. So I need it for the type of space that I'm trying to be in.

Christopher:

So it it feeds that. It doesn't mess it doesn't outrage me the way that it outrage y'all.

Whitney:

Well, no. No. No.

Christopher:

But I still all the shenanigans Outrage. I don't emotionally

Whitney:

wrongest, most inaccurate word.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

What it is, I don't give a single fuck. I don't

Christopher:

I don't

Whitney:

care what anybody in a religious space is doing. I don't give a fuck.

Christian:

I don't care he's been in somebody's face. Yeah.

Whitney:

I don't care. I don't care if they fighting on stage. I do not who won?

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Were there cookies?

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

There are cookies. Chris brought cookies. He did ring.

Christian:

He's there in the kitchen. But yeah.

Christopher:

All I'm saying

Christian:

Yeah. But the there's

Christopher:

Shutting things off on Sunday would be great. Would it be awesome?

Christian:

Take it.

Christopher:

And I was thinking that for the church in particular because Oh. We don't do shit well enough to be publicized.

Whitney:

I don't know who he is, but I hate that for y'all. Yeah.

Christopher:

That's that's why I'm at the Christians.

Christian:

Church. Yeah.

Christopher:

The people of the church. That aspect of humanity that performs religion in a way that is inauthentic.

Christian:

Yeah. And so he he basically look at him. He did it.

Christopher:

Still relevant to the topic.

Whitney:

Yeah. But nobody says you was being irrelevant. Church is irrelevant to my life.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

But he, you know, the guy that was, you know, with the hot take he was talking about and the guy was like, you know, the guy who's interviewing him, he was like, I a % disagree. He was like, we we were not built for this. He was like, we really just need a break. Like, you need to, you know, pick up a book, talk to the people in your house, talk to the people outside. Mhmm.

Christian:

You know, play a game, Lay down to take a nap. Do something. Do do anything.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Do anything else. Yes.

Christian:

And he was talking about buy the DVD collection so you could just watch, like, a specific thing on a regular basis. And I was like, you

Whitney:

know Yeah.

Christian:

I used to enjoy watching the same thing all the time. There were movies that I would watch 25 times with no zero zero concerns. Mhmm. And now it's like, oh, I need something new. But my point was there is a I'm not sure why.

Christian:

Like, I I know why. The in the Internet and the socials are made to be addictive. That's why. Yeah. They are made Right.

Christopher:

Right. Right.

Christian:

Engineered for the Right.

Christopher:

And it's not like you said, it's not and it's not the Internet in particular, but social media in

Christian:

particular. Yes.

Christopher:

That needs to be shut off.

Whitney:

I mean, shut the fucking Internet off. No.

Christopher:

I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't interact with the Internet in the same way that people interact with social media. For them, social media and that is the same.

Whitney:

I don't think that's the only reason why I would need to be shut off. It's not about how you interact. It is it is the fact that you are interacting in a virtual environment.

Christopher:

Yeah. I don't

Whitney:

You need a day.

Christopher:

I don't get I don't get stressed and comparison envy by just being on the internet.

Whitney:

That doesn't mean your brain isn't impacted neurodivergent man?

Christopher:

It it does mean that. What? I get it. Like, for me, it does.

Whitney:

We can argue this offline, but I will give you the neuroscience behind it. It it does not mean that. When everything is quickly at your fingertips and you can pull things up all the time, that impacts how your brain your neuro pathways work.

Christopher:

Okay.

Whitney:

Yeah. It is not a zero sum. There is an impact, and we have to be mindful of how impacts change us over time. Like, even Right. I was talking to a friend of mine who also is very doubly neurodivergent.

Whitney:

And the the conversation we were having was, are we neurodivergent? Or has our world just changed in such a way that human brains struggle to keep up with? And so now we look divergent because now it's in mass. Right?

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And even neurotypicals are having neurodivergent symptoms. Right? They may not have enough to be diagnosable.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

And so, I mean, that's a that's a

Christopher:

It's like it's Let's think

Christian:

about it. Right?

Christopher:

I mean, it's our queer it's our it's our species. Right. Of spoons advancing our mental development in evolution.

Christian:

I mean, let's think about it. Right? Social media, like we started here, is is created with the intent of making you engage chronically. Right? That's that's why Right.

Christopher:

Intentionally on

Christian:

The the videos that automatically play

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Like To

Whitney:

keep you on longer.

Christian:

Feeding you things that they know Right. You enjoy, even the games. Right? Continuous loop games that don't have, like, concrete set. So I'm playing a game right now, and I've realized that I'm about to delete it.

Christian:

I enjoy it, but there's no end. Right? There's no there's no, like, so you were playing, like, a Tetris y type game. It's like, oh, you finished the you finished the quest in the game that session is. Right.

Christian:

Yeah.

Christopher:

The game

Christian:

is continuous play. You can play on and off forever. You just do the exact same thing. Right? Those things are we are aware that those things are created to keep us engaged all the time as much as humanly possible.

Christian:

Mhmm. I don't think we put a lot of because the Internet is so vast, we don't think about the fact that there is a vested interest by lots of people in us being on it as much as possible even outside of social media. Literally. Right? Yeah.

Christian:

So you think about, you know, some people like, oh, yeah. Shopping. Well, yes. Shopping. But even the sites that you're using for research, they get more money the more you go on there.

Christian:

Mhmm. Right? Mhmm. The more you utilize these things

Whitney:

They're tracking your behaviors. Tracking your behavior. Better cater to your attention.

Christian:

Right? And so when we think about how marketing Mhmm. Is using our desire for knowledge, our desire for connection, our desire to be something specific to feed us more of that. Mhmm. Right?

Christian:

That also contributes to masking because they're trying to feed you things to become the type of person you think you have to be. Right? This idea that, especially, American idea that we always have to be improving ourselves. We always have to be getting better. Mhmm.

Christian:

That we always have to be working, that you can't Better

Whitney:

in terms of more efficient. Yes. More consumerism, not necessarily better as how I would define. No. No.

Whitney:

No. No.

Christian:

That we that we need to constantly be on a a self improvement plan. Correct?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And we

Christian:

need to be intentionally what was that you that sent me something? Where did I see that? It was something like, people are not made to be constantly healing or something like that. I can't remember how to tell that. I'm messing up the quote.

Christian:

No. It was yeah. It the the point was that a lot of us are very fixated on trying to fix ourselves. Mhmm. Trying to make ourselves the ideal.

Christian:

Absolutely. Whatever those

Whitney:

whatever that is. Mhmm.

Christian:

Right? And it can be very difficult for us to detach our self worth and our identity from a lot of those things. So recently, Target was one of the companies that rolled back its DEI initiatives. Now let me let me preface this. I am aware that Target was doing some questionable shit before this.

Christian:

Okay? I know that. I genuinely forgot about it until recently. Mhmm. Like, I because when it happened the first time, I wanna say Sid was like a baby.

Christian:

And I was like, y'all, I just need somebody to give me some more bottles. I I don't care who the fuck it is. I need some more bottles. I'm not going to goddamn Walmart. I feel a I've always felt a way about

Whitney:

Walmart. Yes.

Christian:

But Target, I'm a I'm a give them a pass. And so now their lighting. I mean, they have better everything.

Whitney:

It's a better shopping experience.

Christian:

It was for me personally was a better shopping experience and the extra expense I felt like was worth it.

Whitney:

Mhmm. It's not that much extra. Have you price compared Walmart to Target? I have. It's pennies.

Whitney:

It's literally pennies on every item.

Christian:

Yeah. Mhmm. So They're not that bad. When they did it It's

Christopher:

worth You

Whitney:

know? This is not in defense of Target because we're in a different place and time now.

Christian:

We are in different places.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

So when when it happened, and I felt weird about it, but then I was like, no. This was intentional. I part of my Target is part of my identity.

Whitney:

Mhmm. Right? You're a Target shopper.

Christian:

I am a Target. A Walmart girl or a Target girl?

Whitney:

It was a thing.

Christian:

Absolutely. It's just like iPhone and Samsung. They pit Yep. Consumers against each other and make you feel loyal to a store, to a brand because that is part of the construction of your Identity. Identity.

Christian:

Right? And when I was like, oh, man. Like, I buy most of SIDS, this, that, and the other from Target. Where am I gonna go now? Because I was like, I I I can't be a Target shopper no more.

Christian:

And then it was like, do you need to shop? Like, all these other things started Yes.

Whitney:

Started started Yes. All these

Christian:

other things started opening up when it when there was, like, a a chink to the the mask that I had put up. Like, it was a link that I had to other people. Oh, you shop at Target? You shop at Target. Now did look.

Christian:

H e b, do not fuck around.

Whitney:

Sit down.

Christian:

Do do shut the fuck up. Just shut up.

Whitney:

We need you.

Christian:

Okay? Act right. I somebody asked me online, has HEB said anything? And I'm like, no. And I hope to God they How are you?

Christian:

Nuts. And then I looked it up, and they never they never got they have a diversity thing, but it was never part of DEI. No. They don't have to, like, they're not addressing it because it was never part of whatever that

Whitney:

They're also based in San Antonio. Yeah.

Christian:

Yeah. It was never part of that big diversity.

Christopher:

Yeah. Yeah. So but if H. Wow. Fuck it up.

Christopher:

I guess we'll just buying them both at Costco.

Christian:

Wait. Well

Christopher:

They they they Kroger. They've They they have said

Whitney:

They have.

Christian:

Costco and Kroger have doubled down.

Christopher:

Yeah. So

Whitney:

they have. But also keep in mind that that, like, buying in bulk is an access thing.

Christian:

It is. It absolutely is.

Christopher:

It is.

Whitney:

So, you you know, when you have the privilege to

Christian:

do that so many things that started running through my mind.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

Like, the mask, one of the it's not a it's not one of the masks that feels draining. It is the one that makes me feel comfortable and separate, which is, like, I am a middle class shopper. Right? I'm a middle class, Yes.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

Person. And so one of the things that I started thinking about after this whole Target situation and it wasn't just Target. There was lots of others, but Target was the ones that made me feel

Whitney:

Discount tire is the one that's really fucking me up. And I don't I don't they don't even know how to contend with that. There was. Warranty.

Christopher:

They rolled back to it.

Whitney:

They funded they supported Trump's campaign.

Christian:

They supported Trump.

Whitney:

Large amount.

Christian:

And so we're gonna have to figure it out. When I got started, I was like, I'm glad we already got stuck here.

Whitney:

Figured out until my warranties expire. I'm I

Christian:

mean, we already spent that money.

Whitney:

Well, because here's the thing. It's access. Right? Like Yeah.

Christopher:

So basically

Whitney:

when we watch a dollar.

Christopher:

Right. So, basically, we'll be at we're at the point to where we have to buy our tires online and then have them shipped to

Whitney:

From where?

Christopher:

A, star. I forgot there's a

Whitney:

There's a shot. Oh, you can buy them on eBay too. Right?

Christopher:

Yeah. Buy on eBay. There's, like, car direct or something like that, and you you ship it through. I had that happen to me. Gotcha.

Christopher:

I've done that. That's what

Whitney:

they had to do at.

Christopher:

Like, Goodyear Tire or something like that. Brother. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Christopher:

It's like

Christian:

Y'all heard are they gonna,

Whitney:

am I gonna pay $20 for if something happened to this motherfucker within a certain amount of miles, they gonna give

Christopher:

me a new I mean

Whitney:

because that's that's really the discount. Living where we live

Christian:

Right.

Whitney:

What Yeah. I mean, that that

Christopher:

they may

Whitney:

Up when

Christian:

they Beats. Damn it.

Christopher:

Yeah. I think

Christian:

We'll have to figure that out. Yeah. We're gonna do that off. But but, like But

Christopher:

the Like Tire Direct would have warranty. Yeah. And the manufacturers do carry their own warranty.

Whitney:

So yeah. But it's not but, like, it's not the same as, like, the same count tires.

Christopher:

Gotcha.

Christian:

Count tires is, oh Yeah. You were driving on 59, and you got a nail in your tire. You come in, we'll pull it out, and we'll

Whitney:

catch it. Oh, or we'll replace it if it would

Christian:

certain amount of time. Right?

Whitney:

And mileage. Right? But it's high. It is. I know this as a former high mileage Driver.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney:

Yeah. So and

Christian:

I mean, we know too. Fair. We know too.

Whitney:

Well, shit. Because Chris working butt fuck. So Yeah.

Christopher:

You know?

Christian:

And I used to drive so much when I

Christopher:

go to yeah. I work I go to NASA town, and I don't do I don't do shit with NASA while I'm

Christian:

there. But he gotta drive all the way out there. We live on the opposite. If you don't know nothing about Houston strong diagonal. Big.

Christian:

Mhmm. Okay? Houston is fucking huge. Sprawling. Live in one suburb, and he has to drive literally across the city

Christopher:

To Webster Tech.

Christian:

Forty five minutes with no traffic. That's none.

Whitney:

On the Freeway. 0 Freeway.

Christopher:

On for on the worst interstate highway.

Whitney:

Worst freeway. That don't even go between states. Anyway, stop and down. Yeah.

Christopher:

It does. I thought it goes to Oklahoma.

Christian:

No. It turns to

Whitney:

75 in Dallas. I know that.

Christopher:

That makes sense.

Christian:

I never been past that. And then you take

Whitney:

that up to Denton and then Denton. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney:

It does not. 45 goes from Galveston

Christian:

to Dallas. I didn't know that. Uh-huh. How did they get it called in Federally funded. How did they get it called interstate, though?

Whitney:

It's federally funded.

Christian:

Oh, wait. So they named it interstate because federal Because

Whitney:

it was funded through interstate funds. It's federally funded.

Christopher:

State commerce.

Christian:

Interesting. I didn't do that. Mhmm.

Christopher:

Yeah. So You

Christian:

know, fun facts.

Christopher:

Yeah. I we were talking Oh. Oh, yeah. So and I got people that's coming from, like, Tomball and Humble, and I was like I was like, okay.

Whitney:

Back.

Christopher:

This makes me feel less bad, but also, like, more bad for you that you have.

Whitney:

It's like Tomball, you should feel that. Almost not so bad. They can hit 59.

Christopher:

Yeah. I know. 50 nine is great.

Christian:

It depends on what time you're going.

Christopher:

But

Whitney:

Either it's good.

Christian:

Y'all live off fifty nine. I'm Always better

Christopher:

than forty. Yeah. Lady I always talk to, she's like, I have to sit in my car for a couple of minutes because, like, the drive or so, like, in.

Whitney:

Oh, absolutely. Exciting. That's driving. You see

Christopher:

what you wanted for niggas to come back to the office to have this happen. And now they're less, you know.

Whitney:

And you don't want to pay them more. Gas is going up, wear and tear on your vehicle. And the cost of now we can't

Christian:

go to this. And now we've got to figure out the hell what they'll do with discount. And you

Whitney:

won't fix the fucking road.

Christian:

You won't. Oh, well, you stay fixing them, but then you never done.

Whitney:

You know, they don't fucked up 1960.

Christian:

Oh, we talk. Oh, but the there's a Not a rant. We did. We went on such

Whitney:

a rock. Houston, Fuck your roads. Your mom's ugly.

Christopher:

Yeah. Pompers an ass.

Christian:

That is no news to no one. Well, that

Christopher:

was a joke. Agree.

Whitney:

You can tune out. You can tune in. We don't care.

Christian:

We we really don't. But there the the the identity that I had shared, like, that I embodied, once I started to, like, realize that I was over identifying with this place

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christian:

I was like, oh, there's a lot of things that I consider. So when we were talking about Costco co and, like, access, one of the things that a lot of people have been talking about is, you know, the boycotts back in the sixties, obviously Mhmm. And how it's not, you know, it's not feasible, and people aren't willing to give up stuff and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I would like to talk less about, like, boycotts.

Whitney:

Uh-huh. Amen.

Christian:

What are we gonna do? Correct. What's what plan What are we gonna do? Where are we gonna go? How are we gonna do it?

Christian:

And, you know, I started one of the things that I really started thinking about was, like, collaboration and sharing and, like, being more intentional about what it is we're buying

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

When we're getting it. And if we do that, then we can collaborate with more people

Whitney:

Correct.

Christian:

To make things more accessible. Mhmm. Right? And this is just I'm just gonna use myself as a sample. Right?

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And so Sample.

Christian:

As a sample. My myself and my family. So my aunt lives not far from us, but she had never been to Costco. And so one day, my mom just happened to call her when she was on her way, and she was like, I've never been to Costco. She's like, you wanna come?

Christian:

And my aunt was

Christopher:

like, yeah.

Christian:

I come. And, you know, she's not it's two people in her house. She doesn't need Right. Any of

Christopher:

She'll need a pallet of

Whitney:

toilet paper.

Christian:

Size, whatever. You might need a pallet of toilet paper. The toilet paper is the one thing

Whitney:

I can buy from. Water?

Christian:

I can store that at the back of the garage. Okay? Toilet paper, water.

Whitney:

Unless you're getting rid of your ass anytime soon.

Christian:

I mean, we we do wanna get a bidet, but still.

Whitney:

And, you know, I love a bidet.

Christian:

I know you love a bidet.

Whitney:

Still got a pat dry. I mean, you could use a towel, but it's easy. It takes less toilet paper.

Christian:

It takes less toilet paper. Mhmm. The point was, like out. My mom might go to Costco, like, twice a month. Right now, people who know my mama know that my mama basically has a a a convenience store

Whitney:

at the front. Yeah. She always has shoes.

Christopher:

Lance's ex just

Christian:

Always has. Lance. If Lance come aboard the d, I don't know what my mama gonna do because her and them crap.

Whitney:

Switch to Austins. Yep. Riley.

Christian:

They say Carrie McCoscoe. Maybe

Christopher:

we Yeah. I preached them, Brandon. I had to and I explicitly thanked them because my mother in law's freezer stays stocked.

Christian:

Stay stocked. Is thanked.

Christopher:

Now So I'd have

Whitney:

Now Bluebell did contribute to the Trump campaign.

Christian:

They did. And she needs to know that.

Whitney:

I I literally sent Jessica a test last night because that's when Jessica has, like, her h town thing because Jessica doesn't live here. So it'll be like, when she come, I gotta get Shipley's and I gotta get Bluebells. I was like, girl, Bluebell didn't donate it. What you finna I was like, no. Adjust your Texas cravings accordingly.

Christian:

Right. Yeah. We'll find some milk.

Whitney:

She was just like, I guess You

Christopher:

might might as well hop next door to Vermont and get you some Ben and Jerry's.

Whitney:

Yeah. Well, she she gets

Christopher:

Oh, yeah.

Christian:

Yeah. I mean, Jerry's, they ship everywhere. Yeah. They're like a global brand. Not global.

Christian:

But they

Whitney:

don't got that butter pecan. They don't. They don't got none of the grandma flavors.

Christian:

They do not have butter.

Whitney:

They don't got no simple.

Christian:

Somebody else. Yeah.

Whitney:

You know what? Some party

Christian:

does have a butter. Make own. Is good.

Whitney:

That's I love the chocolate ice cream. This is great. Oh, this is for Jess.

Christian:

Jess, H E B does have a buttercup.

Whitney:

Just don't live in

Christopher:

a Creamy creations.

Whitney:

No. My creations are solid, though.

Christian:

That's what I'm saying. So when she but you were talking about the things that she needs when she goes back.

Whitney:

Oh, no. But I also bring them to her when I when we

Christian:

I like well, you wouldn't go bring if you do you you don't bring blue powder?

Whitney:

Only because she doesn't ask. But if she asks, I just get some dry ice and see. Yeah.

Christopher:

But if she didn't dry acid, you carry on and be good.

Christian:

Exactly. That's what

Whitney:

I would do. She hasn't asked for that. She's asked for Shipleys. And so I definitely squished up some Shipleys doughnuts. See, your carry on.

Whitney:

I am in California last year. And mama was eating them on the beach. Okay? I

Christian:

saw that.

Whitney:

That's a stuffed brulee croissant from the only vegan, like, one of the few vegan ice cream places Uh-huh. In the country. And I'm over here enjoying this shit. It was one of the best things I've ever put in my mouth. Yeah.

Whitney:

Jessica is eating

Christian:

A Shipley's doughnut.

Whitney:

Cold. Suckovich? Well, I think she might have heated it before we left. It was a minute for three minutes. But either way, it had it had to drive to the beach.

Whitney:

And No. These donuts on the beach. Just drive.

Christian:

You got to wrap it in a slightly damp

Whitney:

It was in the box.

Christian:

Oh, no.

Whitney:

And it was squished because it got squished on That

Christian:

baby was desperate.

Whitney:

And no. But the joy Nostalgia.

Christian:

You did. The nostalgia. Joy on her face. She do it a happy day.

Whitney:

Talking about she literally told my she brought the Hennessy. Like, waving this. I have never every time Jessica eats a Shipley's donut, the

Christian:

it just sheer age relations

Whitney:

that comes across her face. What's crazy is Hailey brought home my my sibling brought home donuts the other day. I don't eat donuts. I don't really fuck with donuts. I don't this is a tangent.

Whitney:

I don't like donuts that much. Like, they all eat, but, like, I don't have to do it ever again in my life.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And I don't remember why. Oh, I had a hard ass day. It was it wasn't even hard. It was a long day. I had been peopling.

Whitney:

I listen. I only play an extrovert on TV. Okay? I am an ambivert at best.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

At best. And so by the time I came home, I like this training. By the time I came home, I was like, I don't wanna talk to another soul. And I think I had to talk to Hailey for a little bit. This is a lot.

Whitney:

This is not when this happened. Them donuts was gone by then. I went out. I got high.

Christian:

I came home.

Christopher:

I had

Christian:

a Donut. There you go.

Whitney:

This was the this was the weekend. This was past weekend. And I ate this Chipley's donut, and I said, oh my god. The problem was I hadn't had a non vegan donut. Because here's the thing.

Whitney:

Vegan donuts taste like all the other donuts of the world. Except Chipley's. That's what I meant by other.

Christian:

Yeah. That's what I meant. They just I

Whitney:

I don't know. Taste good because they taste like what donuts to the rest of the world Taste like. Taste like. Mhmm. Shipley's is a Shipley's don't taste like that.

Whitney:

It doesn't. And I said,

Christian:

oh my god.

Whitney:

I literally I was sitting in my bed. The first low and and I was like, this is what Jessica

Christian:

was eating. Yeah. This is the conversation I have with people who love Krispy Kreme. I'm like,

Whitney:

they're not That shit is

Christian:

bad doughnut. It's not what

Whitney:

I thought. Reason.

Christian:

No. No. Here's the thing. I don't think they're bad doughnuts.

Whitney:

They're my least favorite doughnut, to be honest.

Christian:

I didn't think I don't think they're good. I don't think they're bad. I don't think they're bad doughnuts. Right? In my personal opinion, they are a step above, like, getting a doughnut.

Whitney:

Like a powdered doughnut from the grocery store?

Christian:

I was not gonna say powder, but a doughnut from the grocery store. Yeah. I was gonna say grocery store, but they're where you

Whitney:

get Krispy Kreme at. They

Christopher:

had their own they had their own stores.

Whitney:

They do, but they're in more convenient stores. And in our area, they're in more convenient stores, and they have just their own stand alone.

Christian:

Yeah. And so, like, if you get a non So

Christopher:

is it

Whitney:

still in line for a Krispy Kreme?

Christopher:

It it because of the grand opening.

Whitney:

Oh, gotcha. We're giving away. Morning.

Christian:

We're giving them away. Yeah.

Whitney:

It's it's free. Free?

Christopher:

Yeah. And they give away a year supply of crystal clean, like, I can get a thousand. Yeah. I don't I don't know. I can get a dozen a month.

Christian:

But I mean, if you wanted It was

Christopher:

it was You

Christian:

know, I get to bring them in the office of

Whitney:

a curd.

Christian:

It's nice.

Christopher:

Alright. It was curd.

Christian:

It's nice. Yeah. So Yeah. I don't

Whitney:

I would only bring that if I hated you. Just know that. That's how you know how I feel about you. Well, if I bring Shifley's or if I bring Krispy Kreme.

Christian:

I won't bring Yeah. No. And Kreme. I it's either Shifley's or some small place. That's usually what

Christopher:

we're doing.

Whitney:

It's problematic. Daylight. Alright.

Christian:

Did you ever go to Daylight Donuts? I don't know.

Whitney:

You went on this side of town.

Christopher:

I gotta when they took chicken,

Christian:

some other donuts that we're

Whitney:

over here.

Christopher:

I frequently visit the local shops Yeah. Over two

Christian:

The local shops be doing it.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

I local shops still taste like good donut.

Christian:

Good. Yeah. Good good donut. Shipley's I

Christopher:

mean, it ain't yeah. Yeah. I mean

Christian:

unique thing.

Christopher:

I grew up in I grew up in Cashmere Gardens, so they didn't have no Shipley over there.

Christian:

They didn't?

Christopher:

Mm-mm. No.

Christian:

They had one in Pinwheel. They had one in Cash Magog?

Christopher:

They didn't go to Cash Magog?

Christian:

Man, we we red. Sorry. Man, we went on Pinwheel.

Whitney:

Well, local joints will that'll get you through.

Christopher:

Yeah. I'm the agent. Yeah. Because, like, you know, right next door to the church I was I would go to on Lockwood. It was right next door, and it's called Shit Smoked Like Donut.

Whitney:

Lady. So she plays off of

Christian:

the off of Hoopster. Why does it simply don't T Whale? That's what I'm saying.

Christopher:

Not Cashmere Gardens.

Whitney:

You're right.

Christian:

That's the other point. Right.

Christopher:

That's what

Whitney:

you're not. It is.

Christopher:

I ain't never go down there.

Christian:

Heard. That's the other side. You're right. I it's weird. It's wild to me.

Christian:

Right.

Whitney:

Because, like We used to get them for church all the time. Like, her mom Yeah. My youngest kolaches.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

That place in business. Right.

Christopher:

I don't think Literally,

Whitney:

our cult single handedly.

Christian:

Because it was up the street. Like, if you were if you got out of church Yeah. If you left Sunday school in time, you could walk to Shipley's and be back at church.

Whitney:

And some I remember the teenagers doing that.

Christian:

They did.

Whitney:

That's how I learned, like, when when my cousin lives with my granny, I that's how I learned where Shipley's actually was. I just thought donuts magically appeared. I guess they did. He's a child because

Christian:

of us. Right. As far as giving

Whitney:

them a show, I would come and sister Phyllis will have them and we would eat them. We would have that little juice and it was a good ass time.

Christian:

It was man, the days with donut holes was the snack. Donut holes and kolache.

Christopher:

There's shit.

Whitney:

When we got older, your mama started grabbing. She would grab us kolache. We got kolache. We got kolache.

Christian:

Sorry for the rest of y'all. But we

Whitney:

Sorry to this man.

Christian:

Sorry. Y'all didn't notice me.

Christopher:

I remember somebody from Fort Worth. Was it Texas? Oh, that They didn't have. It. And, they didn't have and they was like, what is a kolache?

Christian:

Oh, they didn't have kolaches.

Christopher:

But they're yelling

Whitney:

out on the street from Fox. Well, now actually, had you where's, he says Texas.

Christopher:

Wait. And he said, oh, you mean a pick and a blanket?

Christian:

No. Oh, Moe. Those are good too. But no. They're not the same.

Christian:

Yes. Oh, yes. We inject

Christopher:

I don't know if Fort Worth's gonna be a company or not. But one dude from Fort Worth I met in college was like, what is a kalachi egg?

Whitney:

I don't have not married a blanket.

Christopher:

I proceeded to compare it to a pig in blanket. I was like, I don't know what that means.

Christian:

You oh, you don't know what a pig and a blanket?

Christopher:

I know what that I know what that means. They ain't a kalachee.

Whitney:

No. It's hell.

Christian:

No. So are fully enclosed.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Well and the bread is completely different.

Christian:

It is

Christopher:

Oh, yeah. The bread is different.

Whitney:

Oh. The bread is different.

Christopher:

Y'all everything is a sausage

Whitney:

and a biscuit. It is. It's basically wrapped up.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

But it's good. But it's not in

Christopher:

a Hawaiian roll or whatever. We in a Hawaiian roll.

Whitney:

You can go to what is in the check stop? Check stop in West Texas, which West Texas is, like, between Waco and Hillsborough. Barrow. So down 35, like, Austin and Dallas if you go in big big cities.

Christian:

Uh-huh.

Whitney:

And it you go there. It's open all the time. They always have a line, like, but they move you fast. They Yeah. It's literally, like, legit Polish kolaches.

Whitney:

Right? Or Czech kolaches are some because it's the Czech stop. Czech Right. Easy.

Christopher:

Oh, okay.

Whitney:

Yeah. Like Czech Republic. Czech Republic. Right.

Christopher:

Gotcha.

Whitney:

You can buy their kolaches bread as roll.

Christopher:

That's dope. Oh my god.

Whitney:

You have you because we had to take the show on the

Christian:

road, y'all, because we get a little collache in years.

Whitney:

A sausage. Same.

Christian:

Because it's always filled in sausage. And I was like, outside

Whitney:

of the fruit flavor because y'all can also can have a fruit flavor.

Christopher:

Yeah. I don't like that.

Christian:

Nobody would have to say fruity kolache. Shit. Like, that's not what

Whitney:

I do. I like some fucking one.

Christopher:

I don't like shit pushing out into my mouth.

Christian:

Now see that's different. Yeah. That because that's leaning that's leaning into savory. No. No.

Whitney:

No. It's a sweet and poppy.

Christian:

It's still sweet?

Whitney:

Yeah. I don't know about that.

Christian:

I know it's good. I need texture.

Whitney:

Yeah. I mean, the texture is good. I like it. It's awesome.

Christopher:

Do I like the sensation of cream of jelly and chewing up?

Whitney:

Yeah. It's a custardy. So And I don't like I don't like jelly filled things. So if it's goopy, I don't fuck with it. I don't like nothing goopy.

Whitney:

I tried. That's not You said it's good.

Christian:

You said it's good, so I

Whitney:

would try it. I also will eat an apricot.

Christian:

I will give you an apricot. I would try it Yeah. Because you said it's good. But in my mind, kolaches need like, if it's a kolache, for me, a kolache has a sausage in it.

Whitney:

That's a one type of kolache. Yes. That for me Yeah. I hear you.

Christian:

That's that's my that's my conceptualization of kolaches. Yes. Yeah.

Christopher:

Like, I don't I don't

Christian:

But if there was a roll

Christopher:

Coffee.

Whitney:

You said oh, okay. Yeah.

Christian:

If there was a roll Have you had

Whitney:

a nitrile cold brew? Because that'll change your world.

Christopher:

No. Not yet.

Whitney:

Get you okay. Now be careful. Mhmm. Because I once almost put myself in the hospital.

Christian:

With a heart palpitations?

Whitney:

Yeah. I I ended up at the doctor. I was doing grad school. I here's the thing. Caffeine don't keep me awake.

Whitney:

I just really like

Christopher:

the wet faced. Right.

Christian:

It don't do that to me.

Whitney:

And and so my business partner He'll

Christian:

be drinking coffee falling asleep. The same. Same. Yeah.

Whitney:

Because ADHD, this tends to be a thing. Either it, like, actually helps you or it does not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And so no.

Whitney:

My business partner at the time or I say at the time, we still are business partners, but we had just started our org. She was like, I'm gonna get a nitrile cold brew and add pump or a pumpkin. And I was like, so every day before class Mhmm. And sometimes every well, I went to class, like, twice a week. But then I would get it, like, earlier in the day, and I just I was drinking so much.

Whitney:

And nitrile has more caffeine. Yeah. And I was drinking so much.

Christopher:

Sounds like it when you say nitro.

Whitney:

It does. Yeah. And on top I was y'all are I already told you about my anxiety journey.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And I was in I guess that time I was like, just started grad school, started this organization. Not too dry.

Christian:

May not have been keeping you awake. In my sleep. I bet you were.

Whitney:

It was bad. I mean, but that was also part of the stress. But but so don't drink too many of them. Mhmm. This is a but try because it's a it's it's full bodied in a way that a cold brew ain't.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

So, yeah, Chris ain't much for cold cold. Yeah. Yeah. Cold brew,

Christian:

I don't I

Christopher:

I was at Houston's point hot, and I have a, you know you know, sensation with it being hot. Like, I could I could do cold tea, you know, because, you know, sweet tea, the South, and all of that.

Whitney:

Because you're black. Yeah.

Christopher:

But but hot coffee is like that's that's how my mom introduced them.

Whitney:

I gotcha. I

Christopher:

love my mama.

Whitney:

Summertime, you and I, we are gonna go do a natural cold brew.

Christopher:

Okay.

Whitney:

Just one. But we're gonna wait till the summer because they don't They don't integrate. Like, you were right. Yeah. But, like,

Christian:

I I want

Whitney:

you I wanna I wanna see your face

Christopher:

Okay.

Whitney:

When you try it. And You don't have to put on a mask for me if you hate it. You can Alright. Alright. Alright.

Christopher:

It's just like, I don't know how I'm feeling.

Whitney:

To the grass. Yeah. That's cool. Wait till we get outside, though. Alright.

Whitney:

Don't spit in people's establishment.

Christian:

Yeah. I wanted to I feel like being weak,

Christopher:

you know, we should

Whitney:

do that. We have.

Christian:

And I wanted to give Chris a chance to share anything that you wanted, like, about masking or unmasking. Yeah. Yes. That that you have gleaned in your life experience.

Christopher:

My short life.

Whitney:

My short little life. One of the things.

Christopher:

I know. One of the things I did that that that kinda thought that I've just been holding since y'all been kinda in conversation is is that authenticity, in order for you to be and who you truly are and discover who you truly are, it cost you your idea of what you thought life was going to be.

Christian:

Absolutely. We

Christopher:

Like, that's the real cost of it because it's not just you uncovering your your authentic self, it is also, like, realizing that you are not personally built for whatever you was trained to want.

Whitney:

Oh. Yeah.

Christopher:

Mhmm. So it it it it it is a so it's a grieving process. Yeah. When you when you're not when you have not reconciled who you truly are, like, even my existence, like, you know, when I was called to preach, when I was called to ministry, I had a very particular conceptualization of my trajectory and how that's supposed to go. Yeah.

Christopher:

Because I've seen it. It's like, Everybody's gone this route. This is what we're supposed to do. And and the things that I I you know, but I also had a love of truth and a love of integrity and authenticity, and there was some shit that was just going on in church or how we preach the Bible, I really I was like, this is not connecting well with my real life. And instead of me you know, it's like, okay.

Christopher:

I wanna go deeper in not just my, let me back up. My initial understanding was, okay, we just need to I just need to learn how to teach Bible. Mhmm. And I want to because I for me, learning and keeping biblical literacy was important because Mhmm. I feel like a lot of people were not interpreting the Bible correctly.

Christopher:

And then my calling evolved to no. I actually wanna help people understand God. Mhmm. And the Bible for me has been a very sacred tool in doing that.

Whitney:

Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Christopher:

But if I teach you Bible, all I'm just doing is just being a biblical scholar and, like, you know, show showing you biblical facts and stuff like that and but they don't it it doesn't really help the Bible come alive for you Mhmm. In that it helps you to connect with the divine. Yeah. And I could or could not use the Bible. That that opens me up to a whole realm of possibilities.

Christopher:

I can quote from a philosopher. I could use, you know, any any sacred text, any quote from sacred text that helps me resonate with, okay. Yeah. This is the essence of God. This is the God that I've come to know, and I see that reflected in Buddhism.

Christopher:

I see that reflected in in Islam. I see that reflected in Sikhism, and and and I see that reflected in the hallowed halls of the academic avatars when it comes to sociology, philosophy. I see patterns in history that help me see God's hand. So I was like, the whole world is open to me in terms of doing that, but that cost me me me conceptualizing my call as just a preacher. Mhmm.

Christopher:

And realizing that the Christian church will not welcome my way of talking and thinking about God. And and so I chose me over that.

Christian:

Wow.

Christopher:

And, I chose me over trying to fit myself into prescribed modes just so I can feel some level of financial security to advance, which is like, hey. I could. I mean, I could tell the story however you need to tell it for you to understand it. Yeah. Okay.

Christopher:

But I don't wanna just understand I just don't wanna just tell it that way because I need you to be in line with the truth that's over there. Because the reason that we keep having these fights and these visions is because we compartmentalize truth and think that we have it. And my goal is to help you understand that you are we we do not corner the mark on this.

Whitney:

Right.

Christopher:

And so if you could just cool your fucking jets and learn how to work with one another to achieve the ultimate human advancement goal Yeah. Then that is my contribution to society.

Christian:

Yeah. So it's like your authenticity is allowing other people to embrace their own.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it also allows for a bigger and richer experience for you too.

Christian:

Yeah. Of course.

Christopher:

Yeah. It does.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah. Yeah. It it it really does because it's like, you know, it's just I don't know.

Christian:

I have to acknowledge, like, what you see because I think that's yes. That's part of validating. And Right.

Christopher:

Yeah. You

Christian:

know, it's like And

Christopher:

I was gonna say, okay. Yeah. This is what I see. And this is exactly and and I and they're trying they're trying to get you to not see what you are seeing.

Whitney:

Right. They're trying

Christopher:

to not

Christian:

see you don't see what you see. Right.

Christopher:

And so and, like, that was one of the things that really yeah. That's one of the things that that really got to me. Like, when I was talking about that guy that was like, yeah. You know, my parents told me, you know, I should vote for Trump and stuff like that, but I don't feel right. It's like, no.

Christopher:

Go with that. Right. What you are interpreting

Christian:

is what you see.

Christopher:

Is what you see. Yeah. And don't let these mother don't outsource your agency

Whitney:

That part.

Christopher:

To to motherfuckers to tell you that what you see ain't what it is. And you can't

Whitney:

hear that of you. It does not never asked that of you. Has direct connection to you.

Christopher:

Right. Exactly. And so but when we get gaslit and and Mhmm. Have the psychological layering that's happening that makes us to alter our sense of understanding reality when we have the tools

Whitney:

Absolutely. To

Christopher:

make the best decisions for the not just the advancement of ourselves, but the advancement of humanity in the whole. And so part of me and part of my draw towards the Bible is to understand that there is worth to the narratives to help us understand how we all relate to one another. Absolutely. And not in a supremacist kind of way.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah. That is that.

Christian:

It's it's that part. That's the key.

Whitney:

That's the key.

Christian:

That part. Yeah. So I mean, one of the, you know, the the whole point of this, all of this entire conversation, right, about being authentically ourselves and releasing the masks, the facades. Obviously, this is beneficial to us. As know, we discussed with me and Whitney.

Christian:

It's beneficial to the people around us because our show of freedom shows other people that freedom is an is an option. Yeah. And that they, you know, you're not gonna die. At least you that the the the things that you are afraid of happening are possible. However, the person that you get to become is worth it.

Christian:

And necessary.

Whitney:

And I think that's the most important part. And I I know we have to close, and I for me, it is imperative as we are entering what is shaping up to be a very perilous time. Yeah. Mhmm. It is of utmost importance that we all start moving towards our authenticity because you are here for a reason.

Whitney:

Yeah. You have some role to play in this timeline where we exist right now. And if you're playing somebody else, you're out of pocket. Mhmm.

Christian:

You're out of position. Yeah.

Whitney:

So whatever your unique self is, you are always where you need to be, and you are here on purpose right now for a reason. And so being more of yourself allows us to actualize a reality that is more authentic.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And meets the needs of what we actually wanna see. So it's time out for the bullshit. Yeah. It's time out for the masks. It's time out for and I'm what I'm saying is simple, but it's not easy.

Whitney:

No. Right? Like, it's very simple. Yeah. But it's not easy.

Whitney:

And be gracious on your journey with yourself. Please

Christian:

Please great.

Whitney:

Please go easy on yourselves. But know that it is of ultimate importance that you show up and not your representative right now.

Christian:

And I mean, to to your point, there's a there's a there's a post going around about how there's a post going around right now about someone's findings as they were in the process of boycotting. And one of the big things that she highlights is taking your

Whitney:

time. Mhmm.

Christian:

Doing, like, not feeling like you have to do everything right now Yeah. Today.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

That is overwhelming and unreasonable. If you are disconnected from yourself, if you have been putting on a show, like, any part of you that you are you are aware of the show you're putting on. Right? Because there's a lot of shows that we don't be break less than we put on. Absolutely.

Christian:

We don't always realize when we're masking until we realize that other people don't have to think about the things that we put a lot of extra effort and thought into. But, you know, start with one start It's just not a rhythm.

Whitney:

Have a spoon.

Christian:

Oh, and it's We have

Whitney:

no idea how there's a spoon here.

Christian:

Start with one thing. Right? Start with one thing that you wanna focus on. One aspect of your your humanness. One aspect of who you are that you want to be more real about.

Christian:

Mhmm. And start there and be so gracious with yourself.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Whoever you have been portraying yourself to be Mhmm. For the last ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty years, fifty if you're older than us, and I could keep going. Whoever you have been portraying, whoever you have been presenting to the world or even convincing yourself is the true you, whoever that is, they're not gonna disappear overnight. No. And it would be weird if they did.

Christian:

Like no. Very rarely are our stories that flimsy that we can just take them off that quickly. Right. Right. But, like, give yourself time to shift your narrative.

Christian:

Seek out things that will help you shift that narrative slowly and gently. And, like, when you keep showing up. Keep showing up. Stay open.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Stay open. Because sometimes it's not the thing you think

Christian:

that actually will shift it.

Whitney:

Yes. Stay open to seeing parts of yourself that you feel the need to reject. And when you feel resistance, go there. Sit with

Christopher:

it. A a dress the puzzle that is you one piece at a time. Yes.

Whitney:

Good job.

Christian:

One piece at

Whitney:

a time.

Christian:

And there's a very good chance that we're gonna keep having this conversation because there's so much, like

Whitney:

Yeah. I don't even think we got to all of our points.

Christian:

We did not make We

Christopher:

do a

Whitney:

one and two on this.

Christian:

We skipped we skipped a bit. And because we were telling some stories, which I think is so valuable.

Whitney:

Yeah. No. I I think we should probably do a part two to this episode.

Christian:

So there's probably gonna be more for this one, guys. So we appreciate your patience on that. That was not intentional, but you get a little extra.

Whitney:

Y'all done got a lot of personal stuff.

Christopher:

Seventh episode. Right?

Christian:

It was seventh. I agree. Bonus. And, I mean, eventually, there will be more than six, or seven episodes of the season. But, girl, we are taking our time, lovely people.

Christian:

So we wanna thank you so much for joining us today. Mhmm. And we're gonna continue this conversation about masks and authenticity in the socials. Yep. And all the other things that tie into that when we come and talk to you next time.

Christian:

But we thank you for joining us. If you wanna chat with us about anything in the comments, please do so. All of our social media things are in the doodad on whatever platform you're on. And in the outro. And they are in the outro.

Christopher:

Yep.

Christian:

So we will see you soon. Peace, blessings, and grace.

Whitney:

Bye.

Christopher:

Bye.

Whitney:

Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Upward Project podcast. We hope you found fresh perspective and continue to make space for real growth. If you enjoy today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcast. You can follow us on social media at the Uproot Project Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, or visit us at www.theuprootpodcast.com for more content. To contact us, feel free to drop us a line at hello@theuprootpodcast.com.

Whitney:

Until next time, keep living fully, learning openly, and loving deeply. We'll see you soon.

Creators and Guests

Christian Barnes
Host
Christian Barnes
Christian Barnes is an avid reader and spiritual seeker on a journey of excavating and rebuilding the tenets of her faith one belief at a time. She is a proud mom and wife who believes in the power of connection and creativity. She cherishes the moments spent with friends and family, sharing food, laughter, and love. When she doesn’t have her nose in a book, you can find her painting her nails or watching football.
Website Link
Christopher Barnes
Host
Christopher Barnes
Chris Barnes is a pastor, theologian, and mystic leading The Tree Community, a progressive Christian space in Houston, TX. He is dedicated to creating inclusive environments that encourage people to live fully, learn openly, and love deeply. With over two decades of ministry and church experience, Chris helps individuals deconstruct toxic beliefs, relearn truths about God, and grow into their full potential. Through The UProot Project Podcast, he explores faith, mental health, and spirituality in a pluralistic world. His approach emphasizes grace, presence, and intentionality, guiding others toward authentic transformation and a deeper connection with the divine.
Website Link
Whitney Weathersby
Host
Whitney Weathersby
Whitney is a very Black, queer, neurodivergent, recovering church kid and intuitive therapist who is all about deep conversations and disruptive cackles. She is the friend who will pull your card while making you laugh because while healing is hard work, it never gave stuffy. Known for what her friends have dubbed 'Whitney-isms,' you can count on her to unwittingly drop a gem that will shake things up – and to immediately forget what she said. A student of Black feminism, womanism, and decolonial thought, her perspectives are grounded in the liberation of all people—collectively and individually. Whitney’s work centers the experiences of marginalized folks, amplifying often silenced voices, and holding space for the messy, nonlinear path to self-actualization. Whether in therapy sessions, on the podcast, or in everyday conversations, she brings a mix of radical honesty, irreverent humor, and a deep sense of care, leaving people feeling both seen and challenged to grow.