The UProot Project Podcast

Listen Anywhere

Apple Podcasts Spotify Pocket Casts
The Power of Emotional Honesty in Relationships
S2:E3

The Power of Emotional Honesty in Relationships

Download
Christian:

Welcome to the Uproot Project podcast, where we dig deep to uncover and dismantle toxic beliefs about God, ourselves, and each other. Our goal is to replant new insights in the fertile soil of wisdom and love, fostering personal growth and transformation. Join us as we explore new ways of thinking and living in a world of complexity and diversity. And welcome back to the Uproot Project podcast. My name is Christian.

Christian:

Pronouns, sheher.

Christopher:

My name is Christopher Barnes. What? He and him. Pronouns.

Whitney:

There you go. Alright. Keep going. I am Whitney. Pronouns sheher and a little tired.

Whitney:

A little tired?

Christian:

Mhmm. That's

Christopher:

an adjective, but okay. We'll let you have it.

Whitney:

You know what? You're right. Sheher Exhausted. There we go. I mean, that's also still

Christopher:

it. Oh, still it.

Christian:

There are no pronouns that meet tired.

Whitney:

Yeah. No. I was like and what I've been adding on is adjectives because I normally say bad bitch, and I'm still a bad bitch. I'm a bad bitch in a mock neck.

Christopher:

There you go. There you go.

Christian:

Yo, Whitney. Ski jobs. Vibed. Thank you.

Whitney:

Winter has come Winter.

Christopher:

This year.

Whitney:

It's almost Christmas. Is this my Okay.

Christopher:

I'll say Alright, y'all. Everybody everybody pick a note.

Christian:

We picked we kept picking a recorded one. We kept corded one. We kept picking up. We found what we wanted. Thank y'all for joining us.

Christian:

I know

Whitney:

it's ridiculous. Thank y'all for coming back. Mhmm. We literally have been in conversation for I don't know how long. So we are also taking a vow

Christopher:

to, like, Right.

Whitney:

Repivot and come in. So let's go ahead and use our mindfulness moment to help us recenter. So, again, if you are driving, please, eyes on the road, stay in your lane. And if you are in a left lane, going slowly Move. Get to the right.

Christian:

Get out the way.

Whitney:

Oh. Just get over. Okay?

Christopher:

That's a word for somebody.

Whitney:

Don't belong there. That is not everything is not for you.

Christian:

Oh, no. I don't know

Christopher:

who needs to hear this.

Christian:

Yes. I just it's it's

Whitney:

in my spirit. I'm

Christian:

about to punch yo.

Whitney:

You are currently in the left lane, and there's somebody

Christian:

on your ass. Get the fuck back.

Christopher:

If you're going 70

Whitney:

God. If you are in on one of our highways in the great state of Texas,

Christopher:

you're going 80.

Whitney:

And you are going 70.

Christopher:

Move on.

Whitney:

Yeah. That's not for you. If you're going the post it speed limit, just ease on over to the right.

Christopher:

Ease all down to the slow lane.

Whitney:

That's your mindfulness moment. Go on. Mindfully check your mirrors. He's alright. Use your signal.

Christopher:

Speed limit in the slow lane, take the back roads.

Whitney:

Okay. Get off.

Christopher:

Get off.

Christian:

Get off.

Whitney:

Get off. But, like Take the feet

Christopher:

of road all

Whitney:

the way. Either way, when you make your change, I want your mindfulness moment to be using your signal and or indicator light so people know what the fuck you're about to do. So that's your mindfulness moment. Mhmm. For the rest of us festivals for the rest of us, we are gonna go ahead and close our eyes, and let's take a deep breath.

Whitney:

Let's just can we can we the three of us take a collective deep breath in this room together? Just inhale and exhale. That actually feels good. Let's do that again and, like, let out a little sigh on that exhale. Inhale.

Whitney:

Let it go. Okay. Where I want you guys to go today, I want you to think about a person who is dear to you. And they can be living. They can not no longer be living.

Whitney:

And I want you to see this person. Conjure up the image of this person in your mind. And as you do that, I want you to focus on the feelings that come up as you think about this person. Is it warm? Is it funny?

Whitney:

Do you just feel a hug? If they're not here, is there some grief? If they're not near, is there some grief? What comes up for you? And I want you just to sit in that for a second.

Whitney:

Hold the emotions of what this person makes you feel. Take an inhale to lock that in. Let it out. And now I want you to envision, if that person were in front of you right now, what is the most honest thing you could say to them about how you feel about them? The most real thing that you could say.

Whitney:

I don't want you to tell them in your mind's eye. Inhale. And lock in that feeling. There is something vulnerable about telling people how we really feel, even when we know that they love us back. And I want you to hold that.

Whitney:

We are gonna be discussing vulnerability again today. That is the theme of our season. And I want you guys to just sit in. What does it feel like to be vulnerable when you are safe with a person? So we're gonna take one more inhale and exhale, and we'll go on with the show.

Whitney:

But I want you just to lock in the feeling of safe safe vulnerability. So inhale. Let it out. How's that feel, y'all? Sleepy.

Whitney:

Sleepy. That you know what? That's an indicator of it. You've said that before. It's an indicator that your nervous system feels safe.

Whitney:

Like, you can relax. I love that. Mhmm. How's it feel, Chris?

Christopher:

Feels great.

Whitney:

Okay.

Christopher:

And probably a better word than that. Nostalgic and reflective. Yeah. Yeah. I remember before that you mentioned it, because I was I had a dream.

Christopher:

This is back when I was past trying to apply to be a pastoral candidate for my childhood church.

Christian:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

And in that process, I think we were at we were at, your sister's house Christian when we were when we were there. And I remember having this dream that I was on in the pulpit of a childhood church and I was preaching. I was like, I'm I'm always killing it in my dreams when I'm preaching.

Whitney:

I love that for you.

Christopher:

I am like I am like it's whatever I couldn't be in

Whitney:

real life. Yourself up.

Christopher:

It's a toxic be in real life. Like, I was I was slamming it.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

And it was just a high moment. And it's like, what have I always what I've always imagined me being a part of in a church service. That's what it was. Mhmm. I was in my clergy club and I was I was killing it.

Christopher:

And it was a high moment. Everybody was blessed. I'm going down, and on my way out, I see my grandmother's face. I don't know where my brother's at that time. And I see my grandmother's face, and she she just had to look up.

Christopher:

And party. Aw. And you did it, you know, you did a good job today. And and I'm trying to cry. Yep.

Whitney:

Me too, actually.

Christopher:

But when I woke up

Christian:

need some t shirts.

Christopher:

I had to go to the bathroom and reflect on that dream, and I just had a moment. I just cried Yeah. In that moment. And I didn't know it then because I was still finding my way through in the physical world to try to, you know, rest control of that. But she was in that moment trying to show myself, whatever you think you wanna do there Yeah.

Christopher:

You don't need to. Yeah. And just like that whole dream was really just about releasing, my need to prove something Yeah. Right there. Mhmm.

Christopher:

And yeah. And it stung a little bit but because they didn't pick me because I was like, after all my after all whatever my family put in that church, I don't know how to at least let me come preach for y'all. Mhmm. It didn't bother me. It bothered me for a little bit.

Christopher:

But then after that, I was just like, no. This the stream and this this moment equipped me to be able to just move past. It's like, whatever I thought I was trying to prove, I don't know. Having to get

Whitney:

that. I love that. Mhmm. I love that. I I love how because obviously, I think the the person that I conjured up was also my grandmother.

Whitney:

Right? And so, granny circle, but it it's also that feeling. And, like, my granny being a spirit who still feels very close to me. Right? And just it's like all the things that, like, I didn't even fit like, I couldn't have thought to say because I was, like, 17, you know, when she passed.

Whitney:

And so it's just, like, all the things that, like, I could say that are just, like, as an adult. Right? Because I also think adult me would speaks a little different to my would speak a little differently to my granny. Right? Like, a little more candidly.

Whitney:

And it's just like, man, but that is that was always the safest person I've known, like, in my life. Like, that is the person that I'm just like I could say the most outrageous thing. So safe. So safe. I want to the first time I ever had a reading done because, like, you we grew up in in our in our shared cult.

Christian:

And I grew up in my cult.

Whitney:

In my cult.

Christian:

That was the night.

Whitney:

And my what is it? My evangelical Christian whatever. I love his videos, but

Christian:

It's funny.

Whitney:

Oh, shit. Where was I going with that? You Oh, but, like, yeah. I went and got a reading and that that was like a and this was only a couple years ago. And it was like a terrifying thing to do because I was like, oh, this is not oh my god.

Whitney:

And so the the person that was doing the reading literally was like, there's a a shorter lady in the corner who wants to know why she's here. And I was like, describe her. So she described her. I was like, oh, that's my granny. And she was like, yeah.

Whitney:

She's looking around like, now why are we in here? And yes. And and it's funny. So, like, my my energy healer and therapist will, like she'll be like, she's in here and she has questions, but she wants you to do the thing, whatever it is that you need to do to be okay. And I was like, see, you still safe.

Whitney:

If you don't get it, like, you see, like, I trust you to, like, do what you need to do. And I'm just like, just that. So there's a certain type of

Christopher:

Tell me why are we here, bud?

Christian:

Like, do what

Whitney:

you need to do.

Christian:

Like, I don't know why. Why are we here? What is happening? With all

Christopher:

that I've given you, I don't know why we here, but I'm just

Whitney:

Not even. It's just like, oh, now now, baby, what is all of this? What we doing? What is this carrying on?

Christian:

What is that? Right. Who is she?

Whitney:

Right. What is them cards? What is that? Right. Is that g hands over you.

Whitney:

Right. Basically.

Christian:

Is that that don't look

Whitney:

like the g my cosmology

Christian:

child, but

Whitney:

I guess you're doing something, which is very much my granny's energy as a kid. Right? Like Mhmm.

Christopher:

She'd be

Whitney:

like, I don't understand what you young folks is doing, but if that's

Christian:

what you like. Alright.

Whitney:

Then okay. Right? Right? It's like very much is not hurting anybody. And so just like if I don't

Christian:

get the

Christopher:

Simpsons. He's so stupid with that.

Whitney:

Oh, I loved the Simpsons too. But, like

Christopher:

my grandmother.

Whitney:

Because I love it was like when my I

Christopher:

loved the show growing up.

Whitney:

But, like

Christopher:

Oh, yeah.

Whitney:

But yeah. And so, like, just sometimes it helps, I think Mhmm. To manufacture the feeling of safety when it feels when it can feel distant. Right? And so, like, that that is what I was going for there.

Whitney:

I was going off the dome. I hope that resonated with somebody

Christopher:

Oh, yeah.

Whitney:

In some way.

Christopher:

They put me in a I'm sorry. Yes. The audience. I was like, but for me, I was like

Christian:

We are you were the audience. Here.

Christopher:

We're right. Right. You are right. You are right. Right.

Christopher:

Right. Right. Right. Right

Whitney:

No. No. I asked y'all first.

Christopher:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're the first audience. You're right.

Christopher:

Yeah. So none of it.

Christian:

The only person who didn't bring up a granny, but that's okay. That's

Christopher:

okay. No. I asked.

Whitney:

You don't have to.

Christopher:

Yeah. People in church will always say, you know, when I die, I wanna see Jesus' face. And it's like, you know, as a kid, I was like, okay. You know? That's what I'm supposed to want.

Christopher:

Okay. I I'll get there. And, like, I know I got my whole life here, so I'm not thinking about that right now. Yeah. But I know that at some point, I'm gonna want to see Jesus' face in my life maybe.

Christopher:

And now I'm okay with being like, yeah. Like, if I see Jesus, that's cool. But if I see my grace, like, welcome me in my death. You know? Yeah.

Christopher:

Like, I feel like Jesus for me was in my granny. Yeah. And all that I know about how to be kind, how to be hospitable, how to be gracious.

Whitney:

Christ like.

Christopher:

Christ like.

Christian:

You learned that from her.

Christopher:

I learned that from her.

Christian:

That's that's

Christopher:

You know? That's important. The intentional analogy behind looking for the right greeting card and not just getting any greeting card.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah. Just to actually read it to see what the words you wanna say. Like Yeah. That intention and shit like that, I got it from her.

Whitney:

Listen. And we thank you, granny

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

For for making this man who he is because we need more like that.

Christian:

You, granny Mozella. Thank you.

Christopher:

You remember, Nae. I appreciate that.

Whitney:

I like I knew it was something Mhmm. On that line because of of course,

Christian:

I remember it. Yeah.

Christopher:

Mozella Lucy Barnes. Yep.

Whitney:

Oh, well, you know, big ups to Mozella. Mhmm. Miss Mozella. I'm not gonna get the name

Christopher:

of it. Capricorn Energy.

Christian:

Who did she go by? She She didn't go by Mozelle. Lucy. She didn't

Christopher:

like that in

Whitney:

her shoes. By Lucy.

Christopher:

Oh, well, that explains

Whitney:

your sister's name. Mama Lucy. Mama Lucy. Okay. Well, you know what?

Whitney:

Thank you, mama Lucy, for

Christopher:

being who

Whitney:

you were Mhmm. And

Christopher:

raising this

Whitney:

fantastic young old man.

Christopher:

Young old man. Yeah. Because

Whitney:

Yeah. This Negro was telling me how when he was a kid, he had a black turtleneck and a houndstooth blazer, a mini houndstooth blazer. Picture is adorable. It's adorable, but it's so uniquely old nigga ass, Chris. Yeah.

Whitney:

You've been old forever. You are the original uncle, baby.

Christopher:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was I was doing None

Whitney:

of the kids was wearing blazers. We had sweaters.

Christopher:

Yeah. I had I had a it was a white it was a white turtleneck.

Christian:

Thing about him is this move right here.

Whitney:

You say what? I can't do it.

Christian:

Like, what your favorite what? His move. His his little that.

Christopher:

Oh, thank you.

Christian:

He, like, he has pictures as a kid like that. That is old. Y'all can't see what we're doing.

Whitney:

Oh, it's like when you like

Christian:

you make a make a make a finger gun.

Whitney:

But, like, wrap your fingers, like, here's the church, here's the steeple. Right. Yeah. Mhmm.

Christian:

And so two finger index fingers pointed out at, like, resting on his belly. And that was like

Whitney:

Which is crazy. Did you even have a belly at five?

Christian:

I I mean, his tummy. You call it whatever he was. I mean,

Christopher:

I guess. I was husky back then.

Whitney:

Oh, I wasn't. Okay. You know?

Christian:

What we called husky. Those people were so real.

Whitney:

Listen. I was five plus.

Christopher:

Right. And I look back. I was I was a real. Who the who? Come on.

Christian:

Husky. He was skid that.

Christopher:

I had my dad's bill in terms of broad shoulders and stuff like that.

Christian:

All of the people from JCPenney in the throat.

Whitney:

And Sears. Yeah. Because we I also had JCPenney and Sears catalogued

Christian:

to him.

Christopher:

Spiegle. Puker Boy and all that.

Christian:

I don't know which one that one is. Which one? Puker. I never heard of that.

Whitney:

You ain't never heard of Puker? That's where you get the spiffy shit from.

Christopher:

I wanted to ask you, what did you conjure up?

Christian:

Oh, Sydney.

Christopher:

Oh. That's cool.

Whitney:

My favorite three year old.

Christopher:

That's about to say, Sydney Stewart is in the barn when I

Christian:

Oh. Oh,

Whitney:

that's a fair question.

Christian:

But I wouldn't have called it

Whitney:

that way. Right?

Christopher:

You would not have.

Christian:

Yeah.

Christopher:

Maybe it made I thought you would have pulled up back off. But yeah.

Christian:

No. I ran into a, like, a handful of people, and then I I settled on Sid. Yeah. Sid is our toddler. Oh.

Christian:

Yeah. I I don't know. It was just something about, like, when you were, like, what was something you wanna say to them? And it's like, I don't I don't know. I feel like I tell my toddler all the time that I love her.

Christian:

You know? Like, that's

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Every night, I love you. Good night. And so, you know, have a good day at school, all that. But it's like, when you were, like, what was something you would wanna tell them? And, like and I've told Chris this before, like, I love watching her grow up.

Christian:

Yeah. And I would tell her that. Like, I love watching you grow.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

And, like, when I said it, I was like, you do. Like, you really like watching her try. You like watching her figure it out. You like watching her even if it doesn't go the way she wants, like, attempt something and, like, find something new and discover new things and learn new things and, like, absorb information. Mhmm.

Christian:

How and then, like, later, you said I forget what the thing you said was, and it's only been, like, four minutes, but it is what it is. And you said something, and it made me think it's like, man, how come you can appreciate that for her and not for you? Like, why don't you appreciate the learning and the growing and the trying for you? Like, why for you is it the worst thing in the world? But for her, it's like, oh, it's developmentally appropriate.

Christian:

That's amazing. Look at how far she's come and, like, I can't see that for me.

Whitney:

What's crazy is if the closest thing to me wasn't a thumbtack, I would have threw something at you Because that's Yeah. That's a resonant question. And I

Christopher:

could tell you what it is for me. Is is it's this not being able to celebrate growth to me is because, like, this this internal pressure to, like, have whatever I'm doing, my confidence, you turn a buck.

Whitney:

Wait. Say say that again.

Christopher:

So I have whatever, my competency Yeah. Turn a buck is quick.

Whitney:

Oh. Oh, yes.

Christopher:

Yeah. So it's Like

Whitney:

the monetization of everything.

Christopher:

The monetization. So it's like yeah. I can't I don't have time to learn. Yeah. And and appreciate learning for the sake of learning because whatever I put out, I need to for it to come back to me in a monitor because, you know, financial needs and all that stuff.

Christopher:

So I'm trying to, like, tear that away.

Whitney:

Yeah. No. That's weird.

Christopher:

And, you know, you know, and I was just like, man, like, man, I wanted to actually go back to seminary and stuff like that. But it was like, well, that's that's time away that you won't have to. Mhmm. Mhmm. It's that and the other.

Christopher:

And, like, you know so there's this constant battle between appreciating and learning and growing and the the the, push to be economically not that would not, but to really be economically sustainable.

Whitney:

Well, that and, like, there's also some shifts you would like to make professionally.

Christopher:

Right. There's some yeah. There's also yeah. Because it's for me, it's like, okay. I don't have the energy to try to go up this corporate ladder anymore.

Christopher:

Yeah. And so I'm not asking for any more raises. I'm not asking for any promotions because I'm not going to put in the effort that you think I need. Yeah. So you need you think you need for me to be worth that.

Christopher:

So whatever the fuck it's gonna be, it's gonna be what it is over there. Yeah. And I'm a really go a % in.

Whitney:

Right. So transition one day.

Christopher:

And transition out of you. Because it's not gonna be to another COBRA job. It's going to be whatever where, you know, whatever my projects are going to end

Whitney:

up Yeah.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

Taking me. And so

Whitney:

What's interesting Right. Christian, when you said that, like, when I say, girl, I'm gonna throw something at you. Yeah. It's literally thumbtack earrings or like paint can opener. All of those things don't feel like I think I should throw at my best friend.

Whitney:

You know, I love you so much. But the thing that, like it's funny. I was just talking to my other best friend about this last night that, like, the thing that keeps me from appreciating my growth journey because it is. It's really cool to watch her grow up. And, like, I don't get to watch her as closely as y'all do.

Whitney:

Right? But, like, just to be, like, like, even when she started I remember the first time we held a conversation. She was one. And, like, it was an actual conversation. Has been.

Whitney:

Right?

Christian:

For a

Whitney:

long time. And so yes. And, like, just her processing speeds and, like, I love talking to her like she's a tiny adult. It's my favorite thing in the world because she is basically and, like, I mean, she's not, obviously. But Right.

Whitney:

But, like, her comprehension is so vast. Right. So it's and it's like, damn. Okay. Like, if she is learning and she has questions and, like, she does ridiculous, irrational shit.

Whitney:

Yeah. And it's just it's amazing. Like, it is the most amazing experience to watch her grow up. And and I feel that way also about my other niece. And I'm just like, oh, my god.

Whitney:

Or even not even just, like, even my clients. Right? Like, to watch them get it.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And it's just like, I I love it. Right? Like

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

But when it comes to me, there's so much more tied to it. Right? And it's like a, hey. There's this feeling of you should have this already.

Christopher:

Right. That's And

Christian:

it's You should

Whitney:

be the no bitch. You at your big age

Christopher:

It's time it's time to

Christian:

it's time

Christopher:

to make the withdrawals for the deposits you have.

Christian:

Right. And one feeling is why why have we not done this yet?

Whitney:

Well, and the thing hold up.

Christian:

Why is it taking long?

Whitney:

And it's just like, is it taking long? And so, like, when I was talking to Jess last night, it was just like a, hey, I'm learning new shit all the time. Like, I was just telling her before we started recording about, like, how I'm learning about how, like, my neurodivergence shows up even in situations that are, like, now new to me. Right? New experiences.

Whitney:

And I'm like, ah, what the fuck? Like, like, I'm I'm in panic mode half the time. Not full panic, but, like, panic light.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

But Panic light. And I'm just like, what is happening? And I'm like, well, now you're all you're learning how to, like, navigate this. And it's just like, the feeling of I should know because, like, knowing grants me security and, like, the security of, like, being worthy. Right?

Whitney:

Like, if I if I am just done. Right? Like, if I am this idea of, like, being this perfect thing. Right? Like, the I the perfectionism is so appealing because it, like, makes me worthy, makes me lovable.

Whitney:

Right? If I'm Right. In theory. Right? Like, this is not real.

Whitney:

Like, I wanna preface this. That's not real. Your worth is inherent. Right? Like, your lovability is inherent.

Christopher:

You're valued because you're here.

Whitney:

Right. But, like, this this feeling of, like, if I do it right Yeah. If I do everything right Mhmm. Then, like, nobody will have a reason. Oh, the Nat is back.

Whitney:

No one will have a reason to, like, hate me or not love me. Right?

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And so, like, I feel like every day is like new shit we're digging up around that. Like, not every day, but, like, every so often, there's new shit that's like, oh, yeah. You girl, you've got your worth on lock over here. Let me shine a light

Christian:

over there. And it's

Whitney:

just like, why? And so, you know, in talking to Jess last night, I was like, yo, at this point, I'm done trying to grow. Like, and not saying I won't grow. The intention is to grow. That is my intention.

Whitney:

Right. My behavior will align with, like, living and being human because I'm here to have this human experience, and there's nothing about this human experience that, like, says I shouldn't have flaws or, like Right. Won't have things to work through. And so, like, that is the thing. I am like Tony what's her name?

Whitney:

Tony Jones has a song that's called, like, Healing is Not Your Purpose. And it's okay. I say a song. This listen. Tony talks over beats.

Whitney:

And I don't listen to Tony a lot because Tony talks over beats and, like like, a snaps and not like a rapper. Right? And I'd be like, okay, girl.

Christian:

Spoken word. Yes.

Christopher:

It's a rhythmic.

Whitney:

Yes. Or it's it's rhythmic.

Christian:

It's spoken

Whitney:

word. But she's really just talking. It's over the beat.

Christian:

It's spoken word, Kirk Franklin. Oh. You know?

Whitney:

And so I just be like, okay, girl. Enough. But, like, the thing listen. The other day, it caught me. I was in the shower.

Whitney:

Couldn't get out. Right? I mean, I could, but not without tracking water.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And so I actually listened

Christian:

to to

Whitney:

it, and I was just like, you know what, bitch? Thank you.

Christian:

You're right. Say what you said again.

Christopher:

Healing is not your purpose.

Whitney:

Healing is not your purpose. And so, like, that's not why we're here. We're here to be here. Like Mhmm. Healing should happen along the journey.

Whitney:

Right? Like, that can be the intention of it. But, like Mhmm. When you are just hyper focused on, oh, I gotta heal. Oh, I gotta that is so I'm speaking for personal.

Whitney:

That is exhausting.

Christopher:

It is very it is exhausting. It could be because you're trying to make something happen that will happen.

Whitney:

That will happen.

Christopher:

And one of the things

Whitney:

It will happen if you're intentional and if you're con like, if you are consciously consistent.

Christopher:

Yeah. Here's the thing. Like trees, like anything else on this earth, things are poured natural and organic

Christian:

Yes.

Christopher:

Just as we are natural and organic Exactly. To the ground. We are primed in position to grow. That's

Christian:

what we do.

Christopher:

Growth will happen because we are growing beings that that's on autopilot. Exactly. What needs to happen is that the like like the tree, it needs to be positioned in a an environment and cultivated in a climate so that it can grow

Whitney:

Yes.

Christopher:

So that it can grow unhindered, so that it can grow unencumbered Yeah. And be what it needs to be. And so the issue is not for us to to make ourselves grow. Our our our issue is to be focused on positioning ourselves

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

And cultivating the environment around us such that what can will happen naturally and organically will happen without issues. Yeah. But as little issues as possible.

Whitney:

My therapist literally said this. Like, I remember sitting in her office, and she's got these beautiful trees.

Christopher:

I need I need to go ahead and just get go ahead and get my therapy degree then.

Whitney:

Yeah. It does. But, like but, like, I remember and this was months ago. And, like, we were talking, and she was like, the tree and it's crazy because I've, like, taken this analogy and, like, extrapolated it and given it to my clients and, like, you know, branched out. It's like, you know, I love an analogy and I'm gonna dig.

Whitney:

But but, like, I remember her saying, like, that tree does not think about how much it's about to grow. Right. Right? Like, it's not it doesn't have an an aim or a goal. It just does.

Christopher:

It just does.

Whitney:

It just does the thing. And so, like, I think that, like, this this constant pressure to, like, be better, be better, be better, be better. For me, I realized, like, is rooted in perfectionism, which is rooted in, like, acceptance for me. And it's just like and that's what she was saying. She was like, just be.

Whitney:

Focus on being. She was like, focus on grounding. So that's what I like when I got into my grounding bag earlier this year, which I a man still in it because Right. Oh, lord. Twenty twenty four has been.

Christopher:

It's been a year.

Whitney:

Right. Well, and, like,

Christian:

I know y'all gonna hear this

Whitney:

in 2025, but just know that we are with you in solidarity, that 2024 was a booger wolf.

Christopher:

It was a it's a ass mess.

Whitney:

Yeah. It's been It was a whole ass nigga.

Christopher:

It needed a cuss with it on it.

Whitney:

It. It was a whole ass nigga. Yeah.

Christopher:

Put some put some cuss on it. But, Yeah.

Whitney:

Put some cuss on it. Throw throw a c

Christopher:

on it.

Christian:

Right. Christian, what were you meant to say?

Christopher:

Being flourishing is a consequence of being.

Whitney:

It is. Being in the right environment.

Christopher:

Being in the right environment. Yeah. It's something that, like I said, it just won't happen. It's it's long as you pot it and put it in the in the right soil and put it in the right weather and the right climate because there's some shit that won't grow in certain clients.

Whitney:

There's a yeah. A lot of things

Christopher:

But it can grow in other clients. Right. Was it? I said

Whitney:

a lot of things won't grow in certain clients.

Christopher:

A lot of things.

Whitney:

That's how it works. You gotta have it. No. You're strong.

Christopher:

Alright. Alright. You can't We

Whitney:

live in eight a.

Christopher:

You can't grow tobacco in Canada. Like, that's the

Whitney:

Yeah. Basically, because you eat something.

Christian:

Alright. So from there. Today, we're gonna be talking about continuing on our vulnerability journey, but we're gonna be talking about our emotional honesty in platonic and romantic relationships.

Whitney:

Dun dun dun.

Christian:

I mean, seriously, get out the the SVU. It's like, get all of it out. Right? Because this is one of those conversations that is it is a hot topic, specifically targeted at men a lot of the time Mhmm. For being emotionally constipated.

Christopher:

I'm in a hot seat.

Christian:

No. You're not.

Whitney:

All the seats are hot in this room.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Which is why I My ass is literally on fire

Christian:

right now. Directed. That in my side. However, there is a and and it's frequently, like, around romantic relationships. But when we talk about vulnerability and how it impacts relationships at large.

Christian:

I think there's a bigger conversation to be had, not just about, like, oh, you don't talk to me. You don't tell me things. You know, like, not just that, but, like, the way that we choose our friends, the way that we interact with our friends, what friends means, like, what does it mean to be somebody's friend? What does it mean to be in relationship with somebody and for it to not be cursory or, like, passing by? You know, what do you have to be willing to share with those people?

Christian:

And, like, last week, we kinda talked about being willing to see yourself. And, obviously, you can't share something with somebody that you're not willing to see about just Right. Wanna talk about it. But when it comes to, like, relationships in general, the more you hold back, the less you're gonna get out of it. Right?

Christian:

Yeah. And we talked about that. Lisa, don't be cock blocking yourself from God and other people. Right? And so what is it about vulnerability?

Christian:

Like, why is it so important? Why is it so key to be vulnerable in relationships? Why can't everything be surface? What what's the point?

Whitney:

Well, because then you miss connection.

Christopher:

Right?

Whitney:

Like Mhmm. And if the purpose of relationship like, the foundational thing you have to have in a relationship is connection

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

The how you gonna get there with Yeah. Surface things. Right? And, like, I think there there are ways. Right?

Whitney:

So, like, sports. Right? Like, we can bond over sports.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Yes. Our sportiest person saying sports ball is hilarious.

Christian:

I do love the sports ball. She do. All of them.

Christopher:

Oh, Jesus.

Whitney:

But but it's just like it's it's one of those, like, yes. And then we talk about sports and then what? Mhmm. Right? Conversation dies.

Whitney:

Right. Because, like, that's where our, like, our vulnerability has taken us. That is where we know the boundary of our safety to be. Yeah. Right?

Whitney:

And so it's like the more vulnerable you are, the deeper the connection you can have, the broader your boundaries for safety get with a person.

Christian:

Mhmm. Right? Boundaries for safety.

Christopher:

It does. And I would say with that connection, the root word for identity, it really means at its core sameness. Mhmm. And, of course, it meet meet in in two ways. You know, of course, there's this internal sameness where you see things that are enduring qualities that really make up your identity.

Christopher:

Things that are the same throughout your those are just really who you are. Mhmm. No matter the circumstance. But then there's also with the relational aspect of you the you discover your identity by rooting yourselves within the sameness with other people around you.

Whitney:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Christopher:

You discover your unique difference when you connect with other people and see, okay. And and it comes from more of a that development of that identity comes more from a space of humility and a willingness to be open and willingness to share. And it is from that that you bond with one another. And not only that, realize your true difference. And not just so that you could be better, but so that you got your unique difference so that you'd be able to contribute in a meaningful way

Whitney:

Yes.

Christopher:

To the existence that we all share.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, in that sharing and, like, finding your sameness and being willing to share your sameness, that's how you generate any sort of meaningful connection.

Whitney:

Right? I

Christian:

mean, so we've we've talked a little bit about, like, the and I don't we've talked a little bit. Like, me and Chris have a a a set of couple friends. Right?

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

He met the the the man of the couple in school and then we came together for some event, some holiday, and then I made friends with his wife. Mhmm. Right? And so me and his wife, we hang out at least a couple times a month and have for a while. I don't remember the last time he saw his friend that wasn't a couple event.

Christian:

I mean, before before you started this.

Christopher:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Christian:

And so be there wasn't a couple event. And so it is I think something that's interesting to me is there seems to be a very, like, and this is probably socialization. It see it almost seems like for guys, if we don't have a project Mhmm. To do, if we don't have something specific to do when we get together, then we won't.

Whitney:

Yeah. Task based friendship. Yeah. Yeah. Say it again?

Whitney:

Task based friendship.

Christian:

Yes. Yeah. And so but for women like me I'm

Christopher:

meeting a good guy to build my shed today.

Christian:

You're meeting somebody to build your shed. You're meeting up to start it, you know, to start working on another project. Yep. You meet up because of this or because of that. And it's like, y'all don't never just, like I went to the movies with his wife a few weeks ago.

Christian:

Like, we just I mean, it was a task, but we went

Whitney:

to It's all wicked without me. Mhmm. It's It's okay.

Christopher:

I was offended too when she said, I want to see that movie too. What? You couldn't go with your old husband?

Whitney:

My sister is currently seeing Wicked Without Me. Right.

Christian:

What?

Christopher:

Oh, that's that's up.

Whitney:

You know what? It. Ten, not three.

Christopher:

We can go.

Whitney:

You know what, brother? I'll take you up on that because God well, I don't know. I might hold on. I might have a movie date on Tuesday, but Oh. But somebody somebody don't said they don't like musicals, so I don't even wanna get to watch.

Whitney:

You were hearing that happen. The nerve of you gasp.

Christian:

And I'm still gonna gasp.

Whitney:

The nerve is

Christian:

The fact that it still hits the same, and I already do.

Whitney:

So you know this person then turned around and told me that Dreamgirls was their favorite movie.

Christian:

How that work?

Christopher:

That's a musical. That is That's a music.

Christian:

How that

Whitney:

work? What's crazy is that

Christopher:

It's a old with a lot of music.

Whitney:

Listens to this podcast. So we

Christian:

could That might have to be

Whitney:

cut out. Right? That's a

Christian:

It's an

Christopher:

old with a lot of music. It's a

Christian:

It's not an old movie. We I

Christopher:

said, oh, like musical.

Christian:

Oh, music.

Christopher:

Oh, yeah.

Christian:

That's a cool. Yeah. Gotcha. But, like, the it that that dichotomy of, like, the conversations, the types of conversations that we have with our friends. Right?

Christian:

And so I wonder sometimes if the reason not the reason, but, like, men are emotionally constipated, period, and it shows up in all of their relationships. And women have a lot of practice. Like Right. Not all women. More women have practice in sharing those emotions and in being vulnerable and, like, divulging everything.

Christian:

Like, it's like, oh, you went out last night. Give me every single detail.

Whitney:

Right.

Christian:

Tell me exactly what happened, and it doesn't have to involve sex. Like, I've heard of guys, like, oh, tell me how it went. You know? And it's like, well, she took her clothes off and her tits are big. I'm like,

Christopher:

woah. Interested. I mean, like, that's the

Christian:

kind of stuff you see portrayed in media. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the conversations that they're having. And so it's like, no.

Christian:

That doesn't prepare you to have conversations with anybody.

Christopher:

No

Christian:

worries. That type of sharing. But, like, it's it's so important. And it as much as I, me, Christian, have gotten into the habit of sharing a lot of how I feel about certain things, there are still things that I'm like, I don't talk about this. Yeah.

Christian:

I'm not gonna talk about this. It's hard to talk about this.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

I have to, like it's like pulling teeth. I feel like I have to pull out my hair. It feels like I'm dragging nails through my eyeballs to have conversations with people I trust Yeah. About things that I feel like I shouldn't be dealing with. Because I have, like, an emotional

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

Moral judgment about my own emotions, and it makes it harder to communicate them because I already judged me for it. I definitely don't want you to judge me for it.

Whitney:

Right.

Christian:

And so, like, that that can really, like, make relating so much more fraught. Yeah. When we feel a way about our emotions before we even express them.

Whitney:

Yeah. Which I think taps into, like, what we were talking about last week. Like, step one is vulnerability with yourself and God. Right? And then only then are you actually able to be vulnerable with other people.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

You know? Because like if it's exactly what you described. I don't need to reiterate that.

Christopher:

Yeah. You you can't you cannot love fully if you are not willing to be fully known.

Whitney:

That's it.

Christopher:

It it's it's the bedrock of love, emotional honesty. Yeah. And when you can't learn to live in truth, which is a an aspect of love is truth. Yeah. Make truth and love two different things.

Christopher:

All kinds of love in God, but he does with truth. And it's like, they're both the same. They're the

Whitney:

same thing.

Christopher:

They're the same thing. You can't love rejoices not in iniquity, but it rejoices in the truth. Yeah. So so but the thing is you can't lead with what you think is truth to get to love. You have to lead with love.

Whitney:

To get the truth. Yeah.

Christopher:

Truth. Because love is all there is. Truth is developed as a consequence of being safe in love.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christian:

But I mean, I think that's the difficulty. It's for a lot of us. The the truth has been, like we'll use air quotes for truth. Right? The truth is what has been the morality of a thing.

Christopher:

Right. It's my perspective.

Christian:

Has become preeminent. Right? And so the idea that I can share something with you that has morally been labeled as improper or undesirable Mhmm. For you to approach it with love that, like, that doesn't does not compute. Right?

Christian:

Right.

Christopher:

We because we have a superficial understanding of love.

Whitney:

Exactly.

Christopher:

We we have this it's really what we think of as love is really passive passiveness and infatuation and all these affectionate emotions that that release oxytocin and not necessarily not necessarily the substantial action and presence that is love. Yeah. It is is the it is love that keeps you accountable. It is love that challenges you. It is love that wants you to seek to make things right.

Christopher:

It's it's that kind of of substantial love that is there even when feelings of love are not.

Whitney:

Yeah. Oh. Present.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Yeah. I I think so the thing that that, like, calls into mind for me is that, like, how many of our relationships are actually transaction based and how, like, we have been taught to believe that as love. Right? Like, if I behave this way

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And you will accept me and that will be love. But, like, acceptance and tolerance is not.

Christian:

That's not love.

Whitney:

It's it is not Right. All of love. Right? And so, like, then in in thinking about, like, even romantic partnerships. Right?

Whitney:

Like or trying to enter it. Like, I've I've recently heard somebody was like, oh, well, before, you know, I pay for anything, you gotta take me on five dates and, like, show me that you're invested and that that that and I'm like, listen. This shit

Christian:

so much.

Whitney:

But if that's what you need to to have the proof in the pudding, sweetheart, amen, for you, go off. But it that I was like, that to me and when this person told me this, I was just like, that feels so transactional. It it goes against

Christopher:

Very transactional.

Whitney:

Right against how I really conceive of love. Right? And so, like, because that doesn't and as a person who is extremely blessed to have, like, a bunch of loving people around me, like, there's not really anybody in my circle who don't show up in love for real. Yeah. And that listen.

Whitney:

I will say it's intentional now. I don't know that it was, you know, when I was building some of these relationships when I was, like, six. But but, like Yeah. You know? And so for for things to veer off into the transactionalness of it or even, like, in friendships, I think there was some discourse at one point about, like, a, you know, if you always showing up for that person and they not showing up for you, then that that that that that.

Whitney:

And I'm just like, yeah. Or okay. There's another option here. There could be this moment where, like, they're not able to show up. Yeah.

Whitney:

You know, like, they're not able to show up right now because they're struggling to show up for themselves, but you're so busy worried about the transaction of it. It's Right. Including you from actually loving them.

Christopher:

Right. Snoop Dogg had a

Christian:

Oh, yeah.

Christopher:

A video about assets and, you know, view people's assets and liabilities. And he's he's talking from a a business standpoint, and then Fred Hammond shared it on his platform. And I was like, you know, with assets and liabilities and all of those things, and one of the things I say is, like, what does it say? You know, what his Snoop Dogg's conclusion was that if you're a liability and not an asset, then, you know, I have

Christian:

to Mhmm. Mhmm.

Christopher:

Decide if if it's you know, if it could be my mom, it could be, you know, a loved one, it could be a friend. I we could be we could be kicking back there, but if you begin to be a liability, I act because we're not moving the same way. And I said on the comments section, what does it say about Jesus that he kept Judas on the team? Mhmm. Mhmm.

Christopher:

And, you know, because sometimes we get caught up in using business terms like assets and liabilities. This is these are what we've called things.

Whitney:

Right.

Christopher:

Assets and liabilities. And when they we try to transfer them to human relationships, you lose the whole picture of what the value of people really are.

Whitney:

Exactly.

Christopher:

I'm not saying that you should have Judas in your inner circle. He wasn't in the inner circle. It was Jane it was James, Peter, and John that was in Jesus inner circle, but Judas was still on the team. Yeah. And but he was managed in a way such that he was not entrusted with a lot of information, but he still had value.

Christopher:

Yeah. And so I'm not saying that you should keep toxic people around you. But what I am saying is that we should, as human beings, learn to handle each other with a little bit more care considering, you know, our own situations, our own makeup, and everybody else our own agenda such that you can allow God to to not use them, but to position them. Yeah. To accelerate you in ways that you could not have imagined.

Christopher:

Yes, ma'am. But if you act as the ultimate arbiter arbiter of what's valuable and who's not

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

When that's really not your place, you end up running the risk of cutting folk off that would prove themselves to be valuable to your advancement at some point.

Whitney:

Well, even in thinking about it.

Christopher:

Even if it's a negative impact, it could still propel you.

Whitney:

But, like, negative in this example exactly. In this example, right, like, there is of Jews Judas Judas and Jesus. Jesus. Of Judas and Jesus. Right?

Whitney:

Like, there is a collective thing that happens here. Right? So, like, yes, we can do the whole oh, but that that's how it's supposed to go. Okay. Cool.

Whitney:

Cool. Cool. But at the end of this Mhmm. Judas has a realization. Right?

Whitney:

And we become so dismayed He's

Christopher:

like, I fucked

Christian:

his own behavior.

Whitney:

With his own behavior that he takes his own life, but, like and not to say, like, oh, that's what happens to the haters. But, like Oh god. But, like

Christopher:

I don't want nobody to take their life.

Whitney:

You he understood now the gravity of the love that he received and the gravity of the impact of his action. Yeah. Right? To the point where it dismayed him. And so I'm just like, yeah.

Whitney:

It's not always and this is this is the issue with individualistic culture is that you assume it's always about you

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

And only you. And only you.

Whitney:

And some it's usually yes and.

Christopher:

Yeah. Right? Like, zero something.

Whitney:

This is about you, but it is also about this greater collective. And so, like, by keeping this person with with appropriate boundaries. Right? But, like, being able to handle this person, like, there there may be something in that for them. Yeah.

Whitney:

Right? And, like, sometimes I'm not saying we all gotta die on the altar of, like, self flagellation. Right?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Which is why we have boundaries, which is why, like, these things are in place. But, like, sometimes your your your being is also used to help other people in their journey. And what by sometimes, I mean

Christopher:

a lot of

Christian:

the Like, always.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Right? What's that?

Christopher:

Yeah. I

Christian:

was I can't remember exactly what the word is. I won't of course, German. I think it's like Sondheim, like the reality that other people around you have complete lives. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah. Yeah. It's like the main character energy.

Whitney:

Well Or the opposite of that.

Christian:

Opposite. Yeah. It's my awareness that, like, I in in I was reading a book with the word in it. But every time I hear the word, it makes me realize that what I

Christopher:

reading this, man. I'm just gonna tell you.

Christian:

Thank you. Right. But, like, it's happened to me before. You I'll be in a car and I'll look over and I'll be like, they don't know I exist.

Whitney:

Right.

Christian:

They're right next to me, but they have no clue I exist. Mhmm. And their entire life is happening. Yes.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christian:

And, like, the reality of that is like, I don't know why that is so mind boggling. But if you apply that to, like, your relationships, I am I think about the two of you regularly. Yeah. Mhmm. But not all the time.

Christian:

Right. Because

Whitney:

You're also loving your life. Yep.

Christian:

And other stuff. Mhmm. Right. And then it's like, you think about me Uh-huh. And you think about me.

Christian:

And you like, y'all think but the fact that there are times when we think about each other is really kind of precious Yeah. Because the internal monologue that's running is

Christopher:

so Some that have it.

Christian:

Loud. Well, even if it's not like

Whitney:

Oh.

Christian:

Loud, like a voice, like audible. Like Gotcha. The the thoughts that are happening in your head are frequently focused on what you have to do, what you need to get done, what is going on around you. Yep. And for there to be a break in that to go, oh, I think so and so would like that, or, oh, I wonder if so and so is hungry, or, oh, I wonder if blah blah blah.

Christian:

I should call blah blah blah. Not necessarily like, yeah. I wanna talk to them, but I need to know how they are. Yeah. I want to step into their sometimes.

Whitney:

Yes.

Christian:

I like I'm okay with leaving my main character.

Whitney:

Right.

Christian:

And I'm gonna go be, like, not necessarily in

Whitney:

the sea. Yeah.

Christian:

But I'm gonna, like we're we're gonna go visit each other's island in, what is the name of the animal crossing language? Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

I'm gonna go visit your island. I'm gonna go see what you're doing. Let me go help you plant your vegetables. Right? Like Yeah.

Christian:

And so, like, there's something so valuable in that vulnerability of leaving my bubble where it is all about me.

Christopher:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Christian:

To be in your bubble and be like, oh, man. Oh, yeah. Your life is your life is doing things, and we can talk about the things your life is doing. And, like, right now, this is you giving, like, whichever way you wanna put it. This literally happened yesterday.

Christian:

Yes. Right? So, like, I send Whitney a text, and she's like, hey. What's going on? So we have a conversation, and that conversation is mostly about me.

Christian:

Mhmm. But a few weeks ago, she sent me a message, and the conversation we had was mostly about her. Yep. And it goes back and forth like that. And the idea that, like, oh, well, the last two months, the conversations have been mostly about Whitney.

Christian:

It should be my turn

Whitney:

now. Crazy.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

How can you? You can't have relation like, real relationships if you're constantly keeping score Right. On how how when was the last time you texted me? I've been texting you.

Christopher:

Right. Right.

Christian:

I texted you first the last 18 times. It ought to be your turn now. Like,

Whitney:

that's so ego driven. Right?

Christopher:

Keeps no record of wrongs.

Christian:

And but it's not even a wrong.

Whitney:

Right? It just

Christian:

it is.

Christopher:

Right? But I'm just saying, like, keeps no record.

Christian:

Yeah. No.

Whitney:

You're No. That's it. Yeah.

Christian:

It's not supposed to, but there's just

Christopher:

Love covers a multitude of

Whitney:

There's this

Christian:

layer of oh, Jesus. There's this layer of capitalism on everything. Everything. So you're talking about going on a date where you need to invest five dates before I play it on it.

Whitney:

Like, girl, this is not

Christian:

like Trying to make a friend. Well, you need to text me 12 times before

Christopher:

I text you. You want me to spend money or you you need to give me six. And it's like it's not number one, that's a terrible uneven transaction giving

Christian:

me an amount of sex. Go get a sex

Christopher:

person. Body.

Christian:

That's how that works.

Whitney:

Right. Literally.

Christopher:

Right. But but it but it's like, you know, again, these are these are cultural norms. So if you if you know

Christian:

But they're If

Christopher:

you describe cultural norms. Right. Well, yeah. I'm talking about cultural norms of of of the man paying for everything.

Whitney:

Oh, man.

Christopher:

That is a that is a thing.

Whitney:

Man or let's be inclusive, like the masculine party.

Christopher:

The masculine party. Yeah. But even aim for everything. Even And trying to just distribute that you're you're that you're capable of taking care physically

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

Of of a purse of your of your love interest.

Christian:

But we've lost the plot on so much of that. Like, a lot of let let let's

Christopher:

Which again goes back to a patriarchal understanding of human relationship.

Christian:

Let's go back to when women weren't allowed to have bank accounts if they didn't have husbands or dads on them. Like Right. There was a reason niggas played for everything.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

You know?

Christopher:

Because y'all

Whitney:

It wasn't where the money was.

Christian:

That's who had money. Money.

Christopher:

Like, I

Christian:

got money now.

Whitney:

Right. And I can pay for this.

Christian:

Like, I want it. I'm a buy it. Listen.

Whitney:

It's so funny. So I went I was out with a person and, like, the first it was, like, the first time we were going out, kinda just like the two of us. Right? And so Yeah. We had to wrestle in public at the cash register.

Christian:

About who was gonna pay?

Whitney:

Yes. Because I was like, so my thinking this is just as a person who is now dating What? Like, I don't sorry, y'all. I don't like the process of dating. It's very You

Christian:

don't like the the concept as it exists of dating, though, as it's been presented.

Whitney:

As a neurodivergent, I hate this shit. I don't I don't date. I just be choosing. That's I we were just talking about this when we hit record. I don't date.

Whitney:

I just like shows. I was like, I make friends, and then I'll be like, oh, shit.

Christian:

I have chosen. And you're like, oh, shit.

Whitney:

Like, you have a moment. We look from a month ago. Was like, bam.

Christian:

You have been chosen.

Whitney:

But, like, dating is a whole different thing. And so, anyway, I keep hitting the mic. I'm sorry, y'all. But, like, literally, I invited like, I was like, let's hang out. Right?

Christian:

So, like, you felt like she paid.

Whitney:

The place because I was like, we're gonna be on your side of town. I don't know what the fuck is over there. So, like, you tell me where you wanna go.

Christian:

But you asked.

Whitney:

Asked. So in my head, it was like, I invited you out. So I'm gonna pay. Even this was also when I dated men. This is how my brain just

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Receives it. Like, I don't ever want you to feel like I'm taking advantage of you. I don't wanna feel that way. So the loving action would be to toggle.

Christian:

Right? Right.

Whitney:

Mhmm. And so especially if we're not sharing finances, like What is this about? You know? And so, like so I get we get to the register where I order first. So I just I go ahead, pull out my little card.

Christian:

Ready to go. Right.

Whitney:

And I'm just because I'm just like, okay. And she was just like, no, no, I got it. Let me do it. I was like, that's crazy. Why would I do that?

Whitney:

On top of that, I'm a Libra. So like me and my other best friend, we're both Libras. We have for real battles at. Okay. Overthinking.

Whitney:

Like, oh my god. We have battles. And so, like, it's just like and we had to sneak pay and sneak pay back. Like, we'd be like, oh. That was me.

Whitney:

Fucking did this to me.

Christian:

I did. I snuck pay. I snuck it was your birthday. It was literally after my birthday. You weren't here, and then you got sick.

Christopher:

Sounded like Canadian standoffs.

Christian:

It was.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yes. It was. Literally.

Christian:

I had to I knew I was gonna have to sneak pay. I knew I was.

Whitney:

And fortunately for her, I had to pee.

Christian:

So And so when she went to pee, I paid.

Whitney:

And then I was confused, and then I had to recalibrate. And I have neurodivergence. Right? I have ADHD. I also have a hard time transitioning.

Whitney:

So I was like I allowed it. Because I had a gift card.

Christian:

And you still do, don't you?

Whitney:

I do.

Christian:

And now you can you can

Christopher:

gift card? Y'all can get you can go today and and and and then figure that out.

Whitney:

I'm going hiking in the day, but thank you.

Christian:

Have fun.

Whitney:

And so but, like, anyway, so we're at the register. Mhmm. And, like, literally, she's just like, no. And then she decides and, like, I was like, no. I got it.

Whitney:

And so then she just steps in front of me. Like like, she just stepped into the bathtub.

Christopher:

Oh, wow.

Whitney:

And I was like, bitch, I'm taller than you. Mhmm. And so then and so then I'm, like, trying to go over. She block it. So I'm I go under.

Whitney:

Like and so then we end up in this weird physical,

Christian:

like it

Whitney:

fortunately, there's nobody else in this restaurant. I took the people that work here. They just

Christian:

want you all wrestle for the bill.

Whitney:

Yes. It was just like the bartender. He's just like, alright.

Christian:

It sounds like a movie.

Whitney:

And so it was I mean, and then, you know, it's a little flirty because you you wrap it a bitch up. You know? But

Christian:

It's so but I I wanna pay. But

Whitney:

because I asked you out. And, like, I don't I also don't want the assumption to be, like, because you are masculine presenting

Christian:

Ish. You know, hurt. You you you you've

Whitney:

you've seen. Yes. And so, like but more masculine presenting than I. Sure. Right?

Whitney:

Right. Physically. Yes.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Keep going.

Whitney:

I am. Me. Thank you for that. Because you know more my brain deviate.

Christian:

Did.

Whitney:

But, like, I don't I also don't want that to be the assumption. Like, I don't wanna set that tone or the standard because that's not a requirement. It's not a requirement, and that doesn't that's not how I live my life because I live my life love first, caring first.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And, like, I also want you to know that you matter. So to me, to say to someone, oh, like, you gotta pay for things five times before like, so I know you invested. How do I know you're invested?

Christian:

Say that.

Whitney:

Like, how do how do I know

Christian:

Why am I investing a hundred and 50, 2 hundred dollars a date and you ain't putting nothing in? Right. Like, this idea that, like to be like you

Whitney:

the only prize in this bitch. If you dating somebody and you the only prize, stop dating them. Like, I'm on I am a prize and I only date prizes. Like, hey. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Whitney:

Like, it's

Christopher:

Pries up in this bitch.

Whitney:

Pries up is a it's Pries squared. Okay? Like

Christopher:

Look. Christian. Baby. Flew to Chicago

Christian:

I did.

Christopher:

To come see me. And, like, on her own dime.

Whitney:

Wasn't in the winter.

Christopher:

In the winter. No. Like, the first

Christian:

time I went to

Christopher:

No. Not August. It was it was, like

Christian:

It was October. Because it was a hurricane.

Christopher:

It was a hurricane.

Christian:

It was October.

Christopher:

Yeah. So she came up there. And I didn't ask her. Want me? We we you know?

Christian:

It was weird.

Christopher:

It was weird.

Christian:

Kind of. Mhmm. I I could tell the story.

Whitney:

Tell the story.

Christopher:

Tell the story.

Christian:

So there was supposed to be a dance. It wasn't Valentine's, but it was like a sweetheart dance happening at the church he was at at the time. And I was like, oh, were you gonna go? And he was like, no. You're not here.

Christian:

And I was like, well, I could be. Right. And he was like, oh.

Christopher:

No. No. Initially, she was like, this is our new shoes. Like, the fucking it. She was like, well, you know, if I give you permission to go, like, with someone else, what you doing?

Christopher:

And I was like,

Christian:

no. It was not a trick question. Want to.

Christopher:

I like that you are secure. Yeah. I appreciate that.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah. But he was like, I

Whitney:

I can Okay.

Christian:

Let go. Right. And he was like, oh, you would come up here for that? I was like, well, yeah. But first of all, I wanna see you.

Whitney:

So I need is a reason.

Christian:

And now you've just given me a good reason to be up there. That's not like I don't know. There's something in my Right. In my girl brain that's like, you can't just fly out there to see him. Now you have a reason to fly.

Christian:

I see you see him. That's bullshit. I could've just flew out there to see him.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Because money. Yeah. Planes. Access. Controls.

Christian:

Yep. Access, money, and access. Yep. And I can do both. And And

Christopher:

I was like, I can't fly nobody out. So they wanna come up here.

Whitney:

They got you had to flew yourself.

Christopher:

Right. Nobody nobody's getting the flu down.

Christian:

He had been down because he was coming to a conference that just so happened to be in the city where we where I live. So it was like, oh, he had already come down, but it was a pre planned trip that coincided with our beginning to date. He was in Chicago. Have we talked about this? I don't remember.

Christian:

I think

Whitney:

briefly, but anyway.

Christian:

And so I flew up there, which was a big deal to everyone. Yeah. Except Oh, I

Whitney:

remember that.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

I was the only one who was like, what is why is everybody?

Whitney:

Me? Okay. This is

Christian:

Sarah's. Okay. Alright. And I'm like

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

We literally have seen each other for three days, and we've been dating for three and a half months. I wanna see him.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christian:

Why is this hard? And he was like, oh, you're flying out. I think part of it is because I'm cheap. And they were like, oh, you're gonna spend money.

Whitney:

No. That's when I say, oh, this is Cirrus.

Christopher:

Oh, this is a nigga.

Whitney:

How we do. Because Christian type, like, and not stingy.

Christian:

I mean Not stingy.

Christopher:

No. No. You're not

Whitney:

You're no. You are absolute ma'am, we not gonna do that.

Christopher:

You're not

Whitney:

because I could run the list, and we're not going to

Christopher:

a very generous person. You're very generous.

Whitney:

Are a very generous person. But, like, when it comes to spending money on yourself

Christian:

Oh, yeah.

Whitney:

No. That's you want. I am stingy about. So tight.

Christian:

I am Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah. You're very

Christian:

That's what I was thinking about when you said it. I was like, oh, no. I am extremely stingy for me.

Whitney:

Yes. Or to yourself.

Christian:

If you're right.

Whitney:

You do not spend a fucking dime. And so, like, for you to be like, oh, yeah, girl. I'm hopping on a flight. Me. Oh, okay.

Whitney:

And I was like, well, that because I still wasn't sure about this one. You know? Like, we talked about the last episode, you know, he had wreaked havoc.

Christian:

He had run them up. Initial box. Years

Christopher:

In the end.

Christian:

Way prior.

Whitney:

It was

Christopher:

in the friend group has

Christian:

grown. Teenager.

Christopher:

I was I was 24 I

Whitney:

was like, baby. He was not out?

Christian:

We were post college. Well, I I I wasn't around for any of this.

Christopher:

Yeah. I was

Christian:

Oh, but So I didn't actually know what the age was.

Whitney:

We didn't know him until we were over 18, Christian.

Christopher:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christian:

That's point. No. I did, but you didn't. Yeah.

Whitney:

And that that did you know him before you were 18?

Christian:

At 18.

Christopher:

Yeah. We were VOP together.

Christian:

At 18. Y'all joined in August? Yeah.

Whitney:

Okay. So you were almost 19.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

All that to say, we were all the age of consent by the time we mentioned.

Christian:

No. No. No. Absolutely. Yeah.

Whitney:

So so no. It wasn't no way he was 60.

Christian:

He was being He

Whitney:

was being He was being my friend on the cortex ain't done cooked yet. Right?

Christopher:

Right. Right.

Christian:

Right. So

Whitney:

I was just like, oh, no. We go see. That's how you work. Yes. That was me.

Whitney:

I was just like, listen. I trust you. I don't trust that nigga.

Christian:

But you don't trust me.

Whitney:

Trust I don't. Well, it's not. No. It wasn't even that because I think in that circle of friends that Yeah. Chris and I shared, there were there are a lot of men that I do trust in that

Christian:

circle. Mhmm. Yeah.

Whitney:

And so, like, that in in that particular group, that wasn't necessarily my experience.

Christopher:

Right. It was

Whitney:

But because of his actions Yes. And so that really fucked up the group. And so, like, I was just like, okay. I don't trust him yet. But if she sees something there, then and, like, you and I hadn't talked about it because there was no reason.

Whitney:

Right? Until then, I think I told you. Then. Yeah. You did.

Whitney:

Like, why I was iffy about Chris. Mhmm.

Christian:

And you

Whitney:

were like, oh, well, I think y'all had talked about it.

Christian:

We had. And you were just

Whitney:

like, oh, yeah. He did it. I was like, okay. Well, that's that's cool how it's cool. I'm glad he realized the era of his ways.

Whitney:

We gonna see. Yeah.

Christian:

I mean there though.

Christopher:

Yeah. And I I and like I said, having that experience really kinda really I don't I don't assume the more hard ground than a lot of shit. And I think because of my capabilities to have done those things, one of the reasons why. Yeah.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

And when people say, oh, he's so nice. He's so kind. No. I could be unkind.

Whitney:

Yeah. But you're here, man.

Christopher:

Some shit that's really, like, not really nice.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

And whether that's intentional or not, I can do that.

Christian:

Or just yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah. And so it was like, I I I wear that when people say that, I read it with a level of of great humility and awareness There

Whitney:

you go. As you should.

Christopher:

As a person. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, yeah. Okay.

Christopher:

Let me do more of that. And let me be also be aware that, like, that nigga that I put in the closet could come out at any moment.

Whitney:

Any moment. And That's for all of you.

Christian:

Mean, we we talking we talking about Chris' Chris' skeletons. We ain't talked about me by skeletons. I can't

Whitney:

baby. We all

Christian:

we all got our own skeletons. So grazers.

Christopher:

So but So, yeah. Like, you you you me think I'm a soft nigga over here for for being Nah.

Whitney:

He ain't hey. He wasn't soft then. No. God.

Christopher:

I will make some hard ass risky decisions.

Christian:

He could've had

Whitney:

a fucking sick

Christopher:

And we can have it.

Whitney:

Dramedy Right.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Based on what happened. Heard

Christian:

some stories.

Christopher:

Yeah. That was it was wild.

Christian:

So I

Christopher:

mean and I and I own that.

Christian:

But there is a to to wrap this to wrap it back around because I found it. Yeah. Investing finances is vulnerability.

Christopher:

It is.

Christian:

Like, especially for

Whitney:

You better come on and wrap that around. Come on, synthesizer.

Christian:

Yeah. But, I mean, it is a level of vulnerability. Like, to invest your money, which you earn, you know, whatever it is you do, whether it's physically, mentally, or just

Whitney:

which you have emotionally exhausted. Attachment to. We there's an emotional story about your money. Right.

Christian:

Right. Yeah. You have this emotional attachment to your money. And so they like, to put it in and go, I am going to contribute it to the cause of getting to know you better.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Like, that is Mhmm. Mhmm. A level of vulnerability.

Christopher:

It is.

Christian:

For somebody to go, okay. Well, I need to count up your vulnerability tokens.

Christopher:

Right. I'm a stab all over that bitch.

Whitney:

The least vulnerable thing you can do. Right? Because Right.

Christopher:

It make it makes you unsafe.

Christian:

Yes. Yeah.

Christopher:

It makes you unsafe.

Christian:

Like, why would I invest both vulnerability tokens into a black box? That part. We're exchanging vulnerability tokens. Exactly. Cool.

Christian:

Like, alright. I'm vulnerable in this way. You're vulnerable in that way.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

And that's not to say that the only way you need to be vulnerable is with your money. You got to put

Christopher:

something else in. Right. And it's and it's and and for me, the only and right. And and and especially for us men, like, and, we need to understand that the that the that there's more ways for a woman to be vulnerable than with her

Whitney:

body. Absolutely.

Christopher:

You know? And I and we and we need to move away from this adapter. This this narrative that that that sex for men is a need more than a woman is. And and and so we shouldn't be thinking that it should be a currency or a transaction. Absolutely.

Christopher:

I give money, you give me sex because that is something I need. No. You Like,

Whitney:

I already gave you time, Nick.

Christopher:

You have a sex drive. You have hands. Yeah. If you have that kind of need, work that out for yourself. Again.

Christian:

But There are sex workers.

Christopher:

There are sex workers. I'm I'm just saying. If if if you're gonna be if you're gonna be like that, but if you're trying to actually feel

Christian:

Kinda be like that.

Christopher:

A relationship with a person And a person, you need to really see them for more than just, alright, parts or or or, anything of that nature. Like, you you you have to especially if you're going in dating, you got you got to stop with the gender wars.

Whitney:

Please. Bullshit. Oh my god.

Christopher:

Stop. And and and I

Whitney:

don't even participate, but my god, it's exhausting.

Christopher:

Right. Right. It is. It's hard. It's destructive.

Christopher:

I scroll up every time.

Christian:

It is highly unproductive.

Christopher:

But it gets views. But anyway but it's it's it's like you say, it's it's a it's a destructive conversation, and it doesn't really help us advance or grow or develop to have healthy, not just relationships, but healthy people, healthy mindsets about how to view people and how to have, like, fucking relationships. Yeah. Gender wise is the reason why we still argue about the issue about whether or not men and women can be friends. Alright.

Christopher:

That's not what is what is that about?

Christian:

If you can Because you We need to care about for being with these faces. Like The

Christopher:

only way you can view one another is sexually, then

Whitney:

And transaction.

Christopher:

And transactionally, then, yeah, men and women can't be friends. But even in that moment, even if you are like you said, what can I say? Yeah. I I I think that's that's that's that's an evolution that we need to to strive towards as men to value women for more than just sex items.

Christian:

I think it is it is an evolution for men to value relationships outside of transactions. Because as I discussed previously, this is not limited to how y'all view women. It's also included in how y'all view themselves and each other. Yeah. Right?

Christian:

I am only valuable from what I can monetarily contribute. That is my value. That's that's what I have. That's what I have available to me. If a man makes less money than a woman or even his friends, it's a thing.

Christian:

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Christopher:

It is a thing.

Whitney:

And now

Christian:

you're threatened. Socially, not individually for every person.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

But, like, it is a thing. It's like, oh, she makes more money than you. God forbid, you're a stay at home dad.

Christopher:

Oh. I was like, you let you know what? Provide input. And and if we wanna stick with this role of male, the man that's providing providing is is a lot more

Whitney:

Than just that.

Christopher:

Than just

Christian:

so much.

Christopher:

You have to know that. The emotional labor

Christian:

required to be impaired. You make hundreds of thousand

Christopher:

dollars a year, but you don't provide them your presence. You don't provide them any level of emotional security. You don't provide them any level of sanity

Christian:

Yeah.

Christopher:

Or provide for your family a way for them to thrive and flourish.

Christian:

God forbid, a little bit of joy.

Christopher:

A little if you don't provide them joy, opportunities to experience joy by by you being with them.

Christian:

Yep. In whatever they're doing over. You know, you Like, the next party is free. You can have it in your living room today.

Christopher:

So so

Christian:

one today.

Whitney:

I have so many.

Christopher:

Exactly. So yeah. Like, if we if we're gonna stick with the raw I I don't care to. But if you wanna stick with it, then you need to expand your definition of what it means to provide

Christian:

Yeah.

Christopher:

And what it means to protect. Because there's more doing the the just the the monetary and the physical aspects of it. Mhmm. There there's a lot more that needs to go into the totality of the human person that takes for them to thrive.

Christian:

That's some more vulnerability for you right there that, like, I know men we know how to make money.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Right? I know how to make money. I know how to buy a gun and keep you safe. Right? But me learning to do a new thing is vulnerability.

Christian:

Learning how to interact with your wife beyond, like, hey, baby. Roll over. Learning to interact with your wife beyond here, I bought you a thing.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Not to say you can't buy her a thing, but beyond, I

Christopher:

bought it. Gifts are not her love language.

Christian:

Even even even if they are, like, beyond that, though, though, because I guarantee she doesn't only want roses and diamonds. Like, she wants more than that.

Christopher:

And and also let me say the five love languages is like a Joan of Arc, but it's not real.

Whitney:

Right. It's not the be all end all.

Christopher:

And it's And it's not yeah.

Christian:

There there is a spectrum and there's more stuff outside of it. But just to the point, like, to be vulnerable and to try to learn to do something that you haven't learned how ready to do, yes. That's vulnerable. And people who are in partnerships with other people who have not had that experience, we have to give them some grace as they go on the learning journey because, no, they're not always gonna get it right. And you might have to tell them, hey.

Christian:

This is what I need. That's great. I want that over there. Right?

Christopher:

I want that over there.

Whitney:

But, like, you also have to be willing to give them that over there.

Christian:

You have to. Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right? And so, like, and not interpret. So I'm thinking I'm thinking of a specific example. So back back in the day when I married a man, we so the man I married, we dated like, we were college sweethearts. We dated for, like, four years before we got married.

Whitney:

And I remember having this conversation with him, which he then went and had with his best friend who was a male, and they actually have, like, a pretty transparent relationship or did at that time. I don't know anything about anything now. But, like, I remember telling him, I was like, I don't want, like, a traditional engagement ring.

Christian:

Yeah. You remember this?

Whitney:

Uh-huh. And he was just like, what? And I was like, yeah. I don't have a use for a solitaire because the top type of wedding band that I want

Christian:

Won't go with it.

Whitney:

Will not go with it.

Christian:

I remember like a wedding

Whitney:

band. No reason For

Christian:

you to get me that.

Whitney:

Right. That's a waste of money when you got to turn around and buy the band that I actually want this, like, blingy as fuck and, like It was really pretty. I still got it.

Christian:

Oh, do you?

Whitney:

Yeah. It's my favorite ring, bitch. I mean, you're a bitch.

Christian:

But last time I gotcha. But, yeah, it's

Whitney:

like it is beautiful. And it's my ring, and sometimes I wear it on my middle finger because my fingers are smaller now.

Christian:

Oh, okay. Oh.

Whitney:

So when I have an event and I need

Christopher:

to wear a silver ring symbolic gesture.

Whitney:

No. Fuck that shit.

Christopher:

I was like, I mean, just like that, like, right on the middle. Yeah. I'm just No.

Christian:

No. No.

Whitney:

No. No. Side. Well, I don't know that way.

Christopher:

Right. Right. We don't. But it was just funny.

Whitney:

But, like but yeah. And so, like, I was, like, instead, what I would like as my engagement gift

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Is that Amazon Kindle had just dropped.

Christian:

I knew it. I well, you said I was like, she got a Kindle, didn't she? I did.

Whitney:

I got a Kindle, and I called her Princess Fiance, which if you ever watched New Girl, there was a thing about that. But yeah. And so that was her name, Princess Fiance. And then I promptly sat on her and then I had to order Princess Fiance two. And then there was a Princess Fiance three because the original Kindles were not that durable.

Whitney:

And so they just break or just die anyhoo. But, like, he literally has so much dissonance about that because it was like, as a man, I'm supposed

Christian:

to give you a ring.

Whitney:

To put a ring.

Christian:

He had

Whitney:

to go talk to his best friend. His best friend was like, if she don't want the ring

Christian:

what she want.

Whitney:

He was like, listen.

Christopher:

Why you don't deserve

Whitney:

it? Married cost a lot of money. If she is telling you not to do that, nigga

Christopher:

don't do. Right.

Whitney:

Right. Right. It's all

Christopher:

you the other niggas be like, nigga, for real?

Christian:

Nigga. I mean, we me and Chris had this discussion when we got married, so I wanted a very specific ring. It happened to come in two parts. Yes. So there was a solitaire, and then there was another part that went around it.

Christian:

Now if you see me around and I don't be wearing it, it's because I gained weight, and it always fit right. The days it fit right, I wear it. Right. But we had conversations at the time. Again, I'm a reader.

Christian:

I'll be reading all the shit. And so I had been reading about blood diamonds, and I was like, I don't really want a diamond. I'll

Christopher:

flip that.

Christian:

He felt a way. He was like, you know, you want me to get you a cubic zed county? I was like, it don't have to be that, but honestly, I don't care. Like, you you're I'm gonna leave it up to you. Right.

Whitney:

But not a blood diamond.

Christian:

I just don't want a blood diamond. They're expensive, and that's stupid. Also, De Beers, we see you.

Whitney:

We see you.

Christopher:

Right. Right.

Christian:

Yeah. So I had been learning things. Right? And so when Chris he was like, oh,

Christopher:

okay. Alright.

Christian:

Hey. And so Chris went and did the research.

Christopher:

I had no nigga to talk to you. So I had

Christian:

to Damn. But you ended up told me

Whitney:

I woulda gave you their number.

Christian:

You ended up getting a sapphire. Right?

Christopher:

I got I got you moissanite.

Christian:

Moissanite. That's what I'm saying.

Christopher:

Yeah. Diamond and then sapphire on the on the

Christian:

side. And so sapphire's on the side. And I was like, it's gorgeous, and it's exactly what I want. I don't care what it is. Right.

Christian:

Yeah.

Christopher:

I reset. I had to reset just like, okay.

Christian:

But he had to

Christopher:

more tonight.

Christian:

He had to receive that. Yeah.

Whitney:

Because the idea is is if I got a woman, a problematic. If I have a woman

Christian:

Right. If she's out here in the

Whitney:

world and she don't got it look like I love or value her. Like, it's a reflection on me.

Christian:

That I didn't buy you something expensive to wear in your face. Right.

Whitney:

They're like, who said who made that rule in the first fucking place?

Christian:

People who wanted you to spend half your The beard. On a diamond.

Christopher:

And and, you know, and right

Christian:

Shire the

Whitney:

ass broad. I remember studying that in marketing in college. Like, it The same. Beers thing.

Christian:

It was aggressive. Yep. Yes.

Whitney:

It was a whole of

Christian:

different twenties or the thirties.

Christopher:

It was very much I

Christian:

can't remember the time period.

Christopher:

Yeah. They they set the culture trends. And so yeah. So I I think that's also just aspect of, you know, you you know, you want your you want your such and such to be spoken for when they're out.

Whitney:

But, like, spoken for highly, like, highly spoken for, not chiefly spoken for.

Christian:

Right. And not chiefly bitter kind of jean.

Christopher:

Right. But then and also that they said that just a general concept of just having something on you that that tells you belong to someone Yeah. As a deterrent. And it's like and I'm gonna be honest.

Christian:

They don't deter no damn body.

Christopher:

If you if nobody Last time. And number like, number number one, the ring don't turn on the body. And number two, you can't keep nobody that don't wanna be killed.

Christian:

Come on.

Christopher:

So That's it. If there's no internal accountability, it don't matter what the fuck the bitch got on her

Whitney:

face. A full, like, head to toe sheet.

Christopher:

Yeah. You you can

Christian:

And if you if he wants it, if she don't wants to be kept

Christopher:

Right. You can't keep nobody don't wanna be kept.

Whitney:

That part.

Christopher:

So and if somebody is gonna take you, then, like, you need to go go after them. But don't don't go after you who your person for not having someone like look. If if the person is that you're in love with is all who you think they are, they are that to somebody else.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

And they gonna approach whether they the whether they got a ring on or not.

Whitney:

Right. You see them.

Christopher:

You see them?

Whitney:

You think you're the only nigga with eyes?

Christian:

Right. Right. Right. Everybody ain't go blind. Nigga that think that this nigga applied.

Whitney:

Ring. And maybe that's it. Maybe the ring's supposed to be so flashy that it blind them

Christian:

and they just

Whitney:

see them.

Christian:

No. Alright. That was the fuck last night.

Christopher:

It don't it don't matter. It don't matter to a nigga if they got the right kind of boldness to step up e regardless.

Whitney:

I mean

Christopher:

And also the and also don't talk about the the the gift of discernment. And if they discern that you are that kind of person that would entertain that bullshit.

Whitney:

Then that's it. That's all that's a wrap.

Christian:

That's all.

Whitney:

That's why. I literally had a So Same thing.

Christian:

It's that

Christopher:

energy that you walk around with that let some niggas know. Don't fuck with me.

Christian:

That's me. I had a

Whitney:

friend, the same friend we were talking about earlier, who literally looked at my wedding man after I got married. It was just like, that don't even look like a real ring. Like, he like, not Yeah. Fake jewelry, but he was just like, that don't look like a web band. It look like some a girl will wear to deter niggas.

Whitney:

Me. Well, nigga, is it working?

Christopher:

Right. That's

Whitney:

more of the question. Because if that's the line of thinking, like, even that, like, oh, okay. She wearing a deterrent, which means she really single. Let me go. Nigga, it it it's not gonna work.

Whitney:

Like, it don't

Christian:

the ring is not magic. And the ring was

Whitney:

a I cannot just say the ring looked like a wedding band. It did. Boys are dumb.

Christian:

It did look like a wedding band.

Christopher:

So let's talk about authenticity over morality.

Whitney:

Yes.

Christopher:

And why bad guys seem more authentic and how that relates to vulnerability and emotional honesty.

Whitney:

So, like, bad guys seem more authentic because they they are.

Christian:

Right. Well,

Whitney:

in theory

Christopher:

In theory.

Christian:

There isn't a there is an attractiveness to somebody who seems to be self possessed to the point that they don't care that the things they do, other people don't like.

Whitney:

They are not allowing morality to dictate their actions.

Christian:

Other people's morality to dictate their actions.

Christopher:

Yeah. They have to they everybody has the moral morality. Everybody has the moral code.

Christian:

And they have not violated their own. Exactly.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

They they might have violated George. They don't give a fuck about yours.

Whitney:

But, like, that there is something deeply authentic about that.

Christian:

There is. And that Right.

Whitney:

That's what's attract. That's what's attractive because

Christopher:

it's because they have a level of ownership about of self.

Whitney:

That and you can trust what you see.

Christian:

Yeah. And I

Whitney:

think so that that is weird.

Christian:

Or at least it seems that way.

Whitney:

It seems like that. Right. But, like, no. So I used to and I still have this. I don't see it.

Christopher:

It's like niggas that handle snakes. It's like, yeah. You're gonna get bit. I mean Yeah.

Christian:

You knew that. But

Whitney:

you knew that going in.

Christian:

You knew that going out.

Christopher:

And so you got venom in, so you got antidote on the side.

Whitney:

Right. Exactly. And so, like, there's this thing I used to say all the time. I don't know if you remember this, but, like, I don't trust people who don't cuss because, like, what the fuck are you hiding?

Christian:

Like, what are you repressing?

Whitney:

Like, cussing is so much fun. And the fact that you have some rule that says you don't do it tells me you repressing a lot. Like, and I listen. I still say about it. Right.

Christopher:

Right. I don't think you're a bad person. No.

Whitney:

I just don't trust you because what are you hiding?

Christopher:

I don't I don't have that same haircut, but I I I But

Whitney:

that was my thing. I was just like it was just very, like Right. You know, I was younger, so that was how I said it. Just like, oh, I don't trust people who don't cuss because what are you hiding? Yeah.

Whitney:

But it's that. Right? Like, this idea that, like, you would put the need to be appropriate over the need to be honest tells me I can't actually trust what the underlying thing is. Right? Right.

Whitney:

Someone is and I would rather I would rather and I'm trying to figure out how much of this I wanna say. So at a previous place of employment, there were several people in leadership, none of whom I fucked with. Like like like, okay. Some of y'all might be decent people, but blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, what it came down to is, like, the person that was head in charge Mhmm.

Whitney:

Honestly, not we don't see the world the same. Right?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

But I can trust that, like, your bullshit will only go so far before you break because you can't hold

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Bullshit past this point. Right? And so, like, I know if we push past that, whatever comes out of your mouth is gonna be real. And I can hate it. Yeah.

Christian:

But it'll be real.

Whitney:

But it'll be real. Meanwhile, her counterpart, nothing that bitch says and listen, what's crazy is I know one one of our dedicated listeners is a old coworker of mine, and she gonna know exactly what I'm talking about. And, like, yes, girl. But nothing that bitch says is, like, you don't know. And it it literally got to the point where, like, I left because she was triangulating and lying.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

Triangulating. And got

Whitney:

caught in writing.

Christian:

Who? Lying. Lying.

Whitney:

Because she thought she was triangulating at some point. Y'all, I'm not a I'm not that bitch. I, like, I hate conflict. I'm a Libra, but I that means I know how to handle it because I hate it. So, like, we gotta do it well.

Christopher:

Yeah. Right. Right.

Whitney:

And so I'm like, no. We're not about to keep doing this. I'm just and I keep asking you for a sit down with everybody. Fuck it. I'm just I trust this person.

Whitney:

Yeah. A %. I would trust this person with my youngest child. I ain't got no children, but you know what I'm saying? And so, like, I'm I'm we gonna me and her gonna have it since you don't wanna sit in and really, like, hash this out.

Christian:

Hash this out. Yeah.

Whitney:

Mhmm. Like, me and her gonna do it. Right? And then I end up having to do that with another person, and we realize, oh, look at this conversation. That's not what happened.

Whitney:

Let's compare notes. Uh-huh.

Christian:

Right?

Whitney:

And so I'm like, I literally was like, I can't I can't trust the thing you say. How can I sit in a meeting with you? I can't trust the thing you say. Yeah.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

At least this other one stresses me out. Anxiety on 10 hair falling out. I hate dealing with you, but I know that when you talk, you are saying what you mean. Yeah.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And that might make you a harder person to deal with. Right? Like like and I think that was the perception in the the organization. Right? That, like, oh, this one person, she just doesn't she's not so good with people.

Christian:

Right? But we know that. Right?

Whitney:

Mhmm. This other person is wants to be seen as like, oh, I'm such a good person and, like, I really care.

Christian:

Yeah. That that

Whitney:

was a really good impression. Y'all don't know that, though. But, like Mhmm. You know, it's the the face. Like,

Christian:

shit. Like, you know Aaron.

Whitney:

Oh, but no. Not even.

Christopher:

Because I

Whitney:

think corporate Aaron is trying to, like, skate over shit. Like, this bitch was way worse.

Christopher:

Anyway Oh, okay.

Whitney:

And so, like but it's one of those, like, you can't I, like, I literally can't trust the thing you're telling me. Literally, there was one day where she, like, waited for me to get out of my car as we were going to a meeting. And, baby, I couldn't I searched for ChapStick. I was clean. I was trying to give her so much time

Christian:

to walk. Inside. Yeah.

Whitney:

Yeah. And then she just swayed there. And I was like, fuck. Less than a few hours later, she turned around and lied on me.

Christopher:

Oh, man. That's

Whitney:

And talked big shit behind my back.

Christopher:

Yeah. No.

Whitney:

But you wanted to smile on my face this morning.

Christopher:

So you

Whitney:

There's and

Christopher:

and so We we that'd be my last day and we'd have to fight.

Whitney:

Well, when I found out about it, then I fought at my exit. Alright. That that was the last straw.

Christopher:

No. I mean, like, plot your eggs. Like like, at some point on my last day, we fight. No. Here's the thing.

Whitney:

I literally I

Christopher:

get plot to you.

Whitney:

I can't But

Christopher:

I'm also I'm not going

Whitney:

to jail for nobody. Yeah. That's true. So, like, my thing was, I literally, in talking to the head person was just like, I'm talking to you. Like, why aren't you talking to?

Whitney:

I'm talking to you because I can't talk to her. I don't ever wanna talk to her again in my life. Like, you are summarily dead. Like, you me.

Christopher:

This is why I couldn't survive corporate America because I I I I somebody get hurt.

Whitney:

You know? And so, like, that was me. And then, like, then she received to send me this long ass text that to this day I've never read because you're dead, bitch. How the fuck do you think you can text? Like, that's crazy.

Whitney:

Dead people don't have thumbs.

Christian:

Well, they do. They just don't do anything.

Whitney:

Dead people's thumbs don't work. Yeah. They don't. Cell phones. Del dead people don't got cell phone bills.

Whitney:

Dead people don't get to text me Mhmm. Unless I invite them to. And I don't invite you, and you're dead bitch to me. I'm like, you're dead to me.

Christian:

At me. Yeah. And it's that.

Whitney:

It's a but it's it's that. Right? Like, it is the It's

Christian:

one thing to be an asshole. It's another thing to pretend you're not an asshole while being

Whitney:

While being an asshole.

Christopher:

And that's Lawrence was in Insecure. He's like, you're just a fuck, bro.

Whitney:

He thinks he's a good guy.

Christopher:

He thinks he's a good guy.

Whitney:

That's really it's the same shit.

Christopher:

Moving funny, nigga.

Whitney:

That's it. You're incongruous. Right? And so, like, there is what you say ain't what you mean.

Christopher:

Big word there.

Whitney:

Incongruous.

Christopher:

Yeah. I know. I'm my favorites. I know. I I love it.

Whitney:

I love it. Like I

Christopher:

pronounce a little different. I

Whitney:

say incongruous. Yes.

Christopher:

Yeah. But it is fine. I love it. I love what you

Whitney:

But, like, my lot. I love what you did there. Okay. But, like, that's the issue. And because of that, when you are incongruous, like, we don't know what to trust and vulnerability requires trust.

Christopher:

It does.

Whitney:

Right? And so when you're incongruous, there's no ground or there's no basis for trust shifting. If when you are congruent, if you are even congruently shitty

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

I can trust that you are gonna be shitty.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah. I can decide Exactly. How to

Whitney:

engage with them.

Christian:

I can choose I think

Christopher:

intentionally. And I

Christian:

think Jesus

Christopher:

engaged. Appreciated Judas because Judas wasn't hiding who he was. Right.

Whitney:

Oh, I mean And when I

Christopher:

say trust Is it

Whitney:

me, Lord?

Christian:

No. No. I don't know if he wasn't hiding it. No. He wasn't.

Christian:

He was trying to hide. You could have given that to the poor.

Christopher:

Yeah. He wouldn't. Yeah. Sure. I mean, he was he was performing, but, like, Jesus knew he was on that bullshit because he knew he had he stole money from the fucking

Whitney:

Nigga, you a thief.

Christopher:

From the he stole money.

Whitney:

Elias. Steal your I'm just

Christopher:

betrayed you. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer and all this stuff.

Christian:

You say?

Christopher:

Judas can be could have been trusted because he was authentically him.

Whitney:

Yeah. He was a nigga that in fact nigg.

Christopher:

You are right. He he was a nigga that

Whitney:

nigg When you know that niggas gonna nig. When a nigga nigg, you're not surprised.

Christopher:

Right. Even even though you understand my mission and my stuff, you still own some fuck shit? Yeah.

Whitney:

Yeah. Okay. I'm expecting this of you.

Christopher:

Okay.

Whitney:

Alright. That's what it is. It becomes unexpected. And then that like, when you can predict a certain thing, that is a safe space for your nervous system. Right?

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

So, like, I might not now you might not be safe in that, like, you're what the thing you're about to do makes me feel unsafe.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

But the fact that I can

Christian:

trust level of Right. Predictability helps in. Yeah.

Whitney:

Yes. It helps me ground how I should handle this relationship. Right.

Christopher:

And even Jesus was, like, at the Lord's supper, he's like, like, look what you gonna do. Go ahead and do it quickly. Yeah. And when Judas left, that's when he went through all the other shit that he wanted to talk about.

Whitney:

Exactly. Because we already knew what was up. You gotta do what you gotta do.

Christopher:

Or do what you

Christian:

And I'm gonna have the conversation that people can With

Whitney:

everybody else.

Christopher:

Right. Right. Yeah. Because most of y'all niggas is gonna go, but you actually have an assignment that you need to do. Mhmm.

Whitney:

So

Christopher:

you're gonna do that. Those these are niggas just gonna scatter.

Christian:

Right. I'm not

Christopher:

worried about them.

Whitney:

Right. I gotta tell them what they're finna do too because they they

Christopher:

Right. Right. You gotta dip this hand with me in the dish or saying something. Now when everybody dip their hand in the dish, that's why they was asking a fucking question. Yeah.

Christopher:

Is it that? Because I I put my hand in the dish. Yeah.

Christian:

Yeah. But I mean, like, when you Like,

Christopher:

get away.

Christian:

You talking about, like, a relationship like that, that is what is the word that I wanna use? Chris uses the phrase like walking on eggshells, but where you are unsure of how

Christopher:

Unsafe and insecure.

Christian:

Yeah. Of of how something is going to go because this person vacillates between being who they actually are

Whitney:

Oh, shit.

Christian:

And being who they pretend they are. And you're not always a % sure which of those people is the real person or which person you're gonna get on a specific day.

Whitney:

Uh-huh.

Christian:

That makes relationships the most unsafe ever.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

You're not about to be vulnerable with that. And, you know

Christopher:

And you make you make the mistake of being vulnerable, but then you learn.

Whitney:

Been there. And I think that, like so we we've talked about that. Like, in previous relationships, I think that's that's been a thing for me. Because the moment I can't predict, like, what your reaction is going to be. And not that, like, I wanna predict the words you're gonna say.

Whitney:

Right? Right. But the energy of your reaction. Mhmm. Will you be willing to hear me?

Whitney:

Right. Are you going to enter defensiveness? Defensiveness. Is that going to explode? Is that going to enter into some some form of violence?

Whitney:

Right? Like verbal or physical or whatever, then it is just like, I don't feel safe with you.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And I have had experiences where, like, this is the ground. Right? Like, it's constantly moving. And then I say to you, I don't feel safe here. And then it becomes, oh, now you don't feel safe.

Whitney:

Oh, what? And I'm just like, this just added to the ground moving. And now it's it was going side to side. Now it's going up and down and side to side. Like Right.

Whitney:

Right? And so, like, that reaction didn't make me feel safe, like, even though that was your authentic reaction. But the thing is the only reason why I thought maybe I could say it is that sometimes Mhmm. I can tell the truth and it not be a thing. Right?

Whitney:

And so this this makes me think about our our tangent not tangent, but, like, our our conversation from the mindfulness moment earlier. Right?

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

The environment that you're in matters. Right? And so for me as a person who, like, has historically struggled with vulnerability in intimate relationships because I struggle with vulnerability in my familial relationships because the notes wasn't super steady, right, in terms of your emotional response and then you end up attracting people that are not.

Christian:

Although I don't know,

Whitney:

I had some steady people, but, like, steady in what way? Like, are you just tucking it? Are you you know? And then right. So some people are unsteady quietly and some people are unsteady loudly.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And so, like, I wasn't providing myself environments to actually safely practice vulnerability in intimate partnerships, like in romantic partnerships. So what

Christian:

do we do? Like, how do we cultivate around ourselves and environment and incorporate people who are safe to be vulnerable with? How how how do you do that? Like, you're you're sitting in the middle of, as we put it, like, ground moving relationships. Mhmm.

Christian:

So I'm, obviously, you know, I'm the the number one people. We need to cut some people off. Maybe. Maybe you need to change the type of relationship you are in with some of those people. But what are how do you cultivate?

Christian:

Yeah. How do you how do you cultivate?

Christopher:

It really starts with you.

Christian:

Yeah. But how do yeah. How do you cultivate You

Christopher:

you cultivate

Christian:

that safety.

Christopher:

You you no more, you have to have a good relationship with the truth.

Whitney:

And the truth of yourself.

Christopher:

The truth of yourself. And that is really what it is. Mhmm. You have to have a good relationship with the truth. And because with within yourself and recognize who you are, because what I'm realizing now is talking about even the struggle with church and and authenticity is that a lot of people know that church is like a show

Whitney:

Uh-huh.

Christopher:

A production and made up and they're okay with that because that's they don't wanna deal with any deal with any on a level with the reality of who they are.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

And so it's okay. They're at home with being in the charade and the production and the show the showiness of it all, of church as we understand it. And they're fine with that because Mhmm. Even though they know all the problems and stuff like that, I don't wanna deal with any shit I got going on. Yeah.

Christopher:

So it's okay for me to sit here and get this emotional joke, look at the chaos going on.

Christian:

Emotional what?

Christopher:

Jolt. Emotional jolt.

Christian:

Oh, uh-huh.

Christopher:

Bucking and shouting. It's okay to get my good dance out during next one week off or dance out of my suit.

Whitney:

My good cry.

Christopher:

And and good cry, go to Luby's afterwards, go home, and do a rinse and repeat. Because I don't wanna deal with myself or my shit or any deeper level than whatever I got going on up here.

Whitney:

Yeah. I think it's also, like, what is familiar. Right? And so, like You know your spirits

Christopher:

are not? Yeah.

Whitney:

I'm sorry. Yeah. Not familiar.

Christopher:

Well, I'm sorry. My bad.

Christian:

My bad. But,

Whitney:

like, but, like, what is familiar if that is if you are especially if you're brought up in church or you or even if you weren't and you come into it and it's like, this is the expectation. This is how this is going to look and feel. Right. This is what I'm used to and I'm like, it it just is. Right?

Whitney:

Like, it becomes the air. And I think that was also

Christopher:

Even after you deconstruct it.

Whitney:

Yes.

Christopher:

You still be like, I kinda like this. I'm gonna be alright. I'm a tuck this back.

Whitney:

You still be like, I kinda like this.

Christopher:

You oh. It makes me recoil. You know, not not me. Oh oh, sorry. No.

Christopher:

Go ahead. You talking about me? I'd be Oh,

Whitney:

you said you'd be like, oh, you kinda like this.

Christopher:

Well, there are some people that still

Whitney:

Some people then then they

Christopher:

say. They.

Whitney:

In that particular way,

Christopher:

like no. Like, you know.

Whitney:

Yeah. But and I you know, but, I don't know. I think there's a certain point in deconstruction though where you start to see the for what it is.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And, like, you might appreciate components of a thing.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

But, like, the thing in its totality doesn't resonate.

Christopher:

Like, I love a good Hammond b three.

Christian:

That's an ordeal.

Whitney:

No. I get that. I get that.

Christopher:

Oh, yeah.

Whitney:

Listen, I love a good a three four

Christopher:

hundred But I listen to Corey Henry before I subject myself to all the other bullshit that goes around it.

Whitney:

All I'm saying is I sing three part harmony with my friends randomly. I don't have to go to church for that.

Christian:

Cool.

Whitney:

But I think that's also true in, like, in speaking to my personal experience in relationships. Like Mhmm. The the the last person, my ex person is very similar to one of my parents and not my daddy. How about that? She's very similar to my mom in some way, in some ways.

Whitney:

Right? To especially, like, the emotional kind of topsy-turvy ness of it all. And so it was just like a, oh, this feels normal, which is crazy Right. Because I don't think any of my other previous relationships felt

Christian:

were like like that. Yeah.

Whitney:

Right? Right. But because that felt like, oh, this is familiar territory. Like, this this the eggshells Mhmm. Are familiar.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Go back to your original question, Christian.

Christian:

So it is the where is how can we begin to cultivate a safe space where we can have more vulnerability?

Whitney:

So I think the first in thinking about, like, yes to what Chris said, I think also being aware of where it goes right. Right? So, like, that's when I one of the things that helped me, and I used to say this to her all the time, and she would, like, get so mad. I probably shouldn't have said it. But I would be like, none of my friendships look like this.

Whitney:

Mhmm. I was like, I don't know. Nobody else in my life treats me like this. Never. Nobody else has, like, outside of, you know, parentals.

Whitney:

But, like, nobody else treats me like this.

Christian:

Shoes. Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right? No. That's it. Nobody I have chosen to be in my life treats me like this.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And well, they don't know you like I know. You bitch, I'm friends with half my exes. Yes. They do. Exes.

Whitney:

Like, hey, y'all. Hi. Hi. Collection of exes. But but, and so for me, that was part of it.

Whitney:

Because I'm like, okay. Mhmm.

Christian:

What are you putting up with here That you don't know.

Whitney:

That you don't, like, have to deal with. Right? That, like, as a friend would be a red flag for you, and you just would discontinue or reshape

Christian:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Reassign Right. This friend, right, to their new zone. And so, like That's her. Yeah. And that that was it for me because I, again, am very blessed to have very supportive and loving, like, deep, honest, intimate, authentic friendships.

Whitney:

Right?

Christian:

Like Yeah.

Whitney:

I don't I don't really got no surface bitches in my in my circle.

Christopher:

Right. Right. Right.

Whitney:

Right?

Christopher:

Yeah. I'm not a surface bitch.

Whitney:

I'm not. And, like, our relationship wasn't surface either. But, like

Christopher:

I'm sorry.

Whitney:

Not but, like, even with our relationships not being surfaced in my friendships, we're still able to show up and love each other when it gets hard. Like, what you all have to know is Christian, I've been friends for, what, thirty eight years. That's accurate. Sure. We have had

Christopher:

Yes. Yeah.

Whitney:

We've been mostly friends that time. Right? But, like, we've had disagreements. And I think, like, even if, like, it was built as children, like Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Whitney:

Like, there would be times we would I think we fill out more as kids than we have ever fallen out in adulthood. Yeah.

Christian:

I can't even remember half of the stuff. Me either.

Whitney:

It would just be bad.

Christian:

Yeah. We when we wouldn't talk for a while, and then we would.

Whitney:

Right. Yep.

Christian:

And then it would happen again.

Whitney:

Right. And then we were like, oh, we're silly. Or we're the only two weird bitches in our cult.

Christian:

So we. So. Figure this out. I don't. Unless I want to be alone.

Christian:

Let me go and just. Go back to my other weird friend. But I mean,

Christopher:

like, what you

Christian:

said, my only weird friend that because, I mean, that was.

Whitney:

I mean, in the cold, that was. Yeah.

Christian:

Which is which is funny. You think in a cult that most people would be weird, but they weren't the same kinda weird as us. No.

Whitney:

They were regular. They were only in the cult because their parents were in the cult.

Christian:

No. I was I was I was committed to the cult.

Whitney:

That's true. I Same. Same. Oh my god. That's why we were there.

Christian:

We were committed to the cult.

Whitney:

The cult being, like, trying to get close to God and Jesus, but, like, the way

Christian:

But in a very specific way.

Christopher:

Way it was

Christian:

In a very

Whitney:

specific way.

Christian:

Way it was In a very specific way.

Whitney:

And And I think, like, we were committed

Christian:

in different degrees. In different ways. In different ways. But we were committed to Like, the general Right. The narrative.

Christopher:

The general principles of

Christian:

The framework. Yes. Mhmm. Now I was a rule follower.

Whitney:

She was

Christian:

not, but we like, we were aiming

Christopher:

She was more like the spirit of the law. Mhmm.

Christian:

Yeah. We were aiming for the same thing. We were like, oh, this God that we be talking about? Yes. Must know him.

Christopher:

Taken seriously. Taken with his voice. I

Whitney:

think that's it. It's like the primary focus of it was, like, God. I think they were doing a good job of living. Right? Like, they were doing a good job of being teenagers and being worried about, like, teenage shit.

Whitney:

And, like, I was also trying to be a teenager, be worried about shit, but light of what would God think?

Christian:

Like Yes. So you had that that you had a little bit of the tinge and I was very

Christopher:

much like

Christian:

A tinge? I was yeah. It was all about what God thought. I didn't know much of any. I

Christopher:

was just very alone in all of that.

Whitney:

Damn.

Christian:

But, I mean, it was just the two of us.

Christopher:

No. No.

Christian:

Yeah. So I'm not surprised.

Christopher:

But what you said Well, I almost almost killed myself. So they're here.

Whitney:

Same, actually. But when you failed attempts, praise God.

Christopher:

Uh-huh. Yeah.

Christian:

Praise God. But when you were talking about, like, once you assess this and then reassigning people to new zones, that's powerful. Because like we talked about earlier with with Snoop Dogg, you don't necessarily need to excise people from your life or remove them. They just may not be able to be in the inner circle anymore.

Christopher:

Yep. Right.

Christian:

To slide out. They may and some of them may completely fall off. I mean, that happens. But, like, they may need to slide out. They may need to move around.

Christian:

You may need like, we have different types of conversations. Like, they're friends I have. Right. We're cool. We can talk about a whole lot.

Christian:

We don't touch politics with a 10 foot pole. Yeah. We just don't.

Christopher:

Right.

Christian:

Like, I can talk to these people about all of my political beliefs whether they like, not not to say we all agree about each and everything. These people she meant

Whitney:

politics. Me and Chris. Right.

Christian:

Right. People in the room. Sorry.

Christopher:

We may disagree on methodology, but not like

Christian:

Or we Yeah. Or haven't given it enough of thought. But we can have civil conversations and we're gonna be on the same page

Whitney:

Uh-huh.

Christian:

Like, in establishing the humanity of others and their right to exist and the desire to support them in their existence. Like, we can agree on a lot of the general tenants of that. And there are few friends I have that they don't agree with some of those tenants, and it's like, you know what? We don't talk nearly as much. Yeah.

Christian:

Because I don't I don't be having energy to be somebody else.

Whitney:

Listen. I was about to say the fact that you can't listen. I got hard boundaries for certain shit.

Christian:

We

Whitney:

And my my human my human rights, my humanity is one of them.

Christian:

So here's the thing. I it got to the point again on the periphery. We haven't really talked since, like, 2018. Yeah. No.

Christian:

I have a friend I

Whitney:

haven't talked to since 2016.

Christian:

Not like like we chat. Yeah. Yeah. But not talk. Yeah.

Christian:

Right. Right. You know? And so you you slid on out. I'm not mad at you as a person.

Christian:

Like, I still love you

Whitney:

over over there because that's where you

Christopher:

have

Whitney:

to go. That's and and putting you over there allows me to love you without risk of injury to of harm to either of us.

Christian:

Yeah. Right.

Christopher:

The Right. The bible talks about, can two walk except they agree?

Christian:

Yeah. We not gonna

Christopher:

And so we we can't

Whitney:

We ain't gonna be walking.

Christopher:

We ain't gonna be walking.

Whitney:

Now we might pass by each other sometimes.

Christopher:

Yes. Right.

Christian:

We might bump into each other.

Whitney:

Right. We might do.

Christian:

We're not we're not on the same track.

Christopher:

I'm I'm I'm not on the disagree and still be friends tip. I'm on a disagree, and I can still be civil.

Whitney:

Right. That's yes.

Christopher:

I don't have to cut you out on-site.

Whitney:

Even the civility is me accounting for your humanity. Let me be Right. Here. I don't like you.

Christopher:

Yeah. I mean Yeah. Yeah. It's like the so yeah. The civility and cordiality is is just, you know, but, like, don't think we're gonna be up at my foot on my fucking couch.

Christian:

No. I mean,

Christopher:

there's a certain political belief that I know

Whitney:

on hold.

Christian:

I know you know about a specific person, both of us. Well, now now we're talking about the same person. Previously, I was talking about somebody Oh.

Christopher:

But I was just talking about a general person, but yeah. Yeah. Could be could be the same person. I don't know.

Whitney:

Okay. I I

Christopher:

And they not here. They not on my fucking couch. So yeah.

Christian:

Well, I guess this is what I was

Whitney:

gonna say. They ain't came through the threshold.

Christian:

There is there is there at least for me, there is a desire. And I think this is why Jesus kept Judas around. There was always a desire to reconcile. And so even when I know that you are not the kind of person I can keep close, I don't necessarily want to push you all the way away.

Christopher:

I keep you close by, but I don't keep you close.

Christian:

Because there might come a day when just being in my general proximity at all will help you realize what's going on.

Whitney:

That's real.

Christian:

That will help you open your eyes. That don't mean I have to subject myself to the bullshit. So you're not in the inner circle. You ain't coming to the mountain. Okay?

Whitney:

That's it.

Christian:

You're not human. How how's it never? If there is a if there is an opera because I I wanna reconcile you. I can see. Yeah.

Christian:

I've been half the time I'd have been there, number one, wherever you at. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Number two, I I desperately I I I feel like you need something, and you can't get it next to me.

Christian:

You can't get it next to me.

Whitney:

Right.

Christian:

But I also don't wanna make you feel like I am never here for you. No. That's right. You know? So, like, holding those things intention, hard, awkward Yep.

Christian:

Weird, but worth it.

Christopher:

Yeah. One of my

Christian:

thing is.

Christopher:

Exactly. One one of my best friends and I have two of them, but one of my best friends that he since passed away, we were friends that he was there for my first time in high school. And that was back when I was just, like, really trying to reconcile all the shit that I had going on. The godness of Allah and then the doctrine and all of that. And, you know, there were times where I was like, you know, I've heard heard that evangelical shit, you know, your friends ain't, you know, ain't what they you know, ain't you know, if your friends ain't lining up with the word of God or, you know, they're not they're not doing you ain't trying to you need to cut them off or whatever.

Christopher:

You know, you need to have that conversation. And I was like

Christian:

Sorry. I hate it so much. Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah. But heard. Yeah. But but and so I'm having that in my head Yeah. But can't bring it to myself

Christian:

To do that.

Christopher:

To say, hey, Joseph. We can't really be friends because I'm a Christian. You're not Yeah. Or you're not practicing the same way. I I couldn't bring myself to have that discussion because our relationship was genuine.

Christopher:

We had fun. Like, I laughed at his jokes. Like so, like, in so many ways

Christian:

Actual friend.

Christopher:

Right. I'm an actual friend. So, like, yeah. Like, I'm trying to take God seriously, but I'm also laughing at your dumbass jokes. Yeah.

Christopher:

Like and so it's and so it would be for me, it would it would implicate me and be and I would be hypocritical to even try to put him in a situation where I'm on a spiritual like, no. You're not. You fuck we fucking joke about the

Whitney:

same thing. What

Christian:

is this about?

Whitney:

I think you're funny.

Christopher:

I think you're you know, so so, like, you know, we were friends who were there for each other, and he's always he was always there for me. He showed up and on the one I ain't got, like, one of the second worst days of my life was my first sermon because, like, I was so high on anxiety. Mhmm. It was it took everything for me to get up there. Like, it was so much bullshit from, like, October 2023 to January 2024.

Christopher:

I was fighting some real shit.

Christian:

February?

Christopher:

And I'm February yeah. 02/2003. Two thousand '3, '2 thousand '4.

Christian:

I was

Whitney:

like, this year? Yeah.

Christian:

When he said it, I was like, this year.

Christopher:

I was fighting some real shit, and that nigga was just there. Yeah. And, like, he you know, like, I had some shit going on in my head. And you you called my name, like, seven, eight times and I wouldn't even answer because I was so deep in thought.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

And he's like, what you did? Like, you're really you you you're here, but you're not here. Yeah. And and he was just there. So no.

Christopher:

I can't I couldn't bring it to myself to be like, well, I'm taking God seriously. And according to the evangelical cultiness of it all, I should cut you off and we not should be we shouldn't be close. Mhmm. Whatever. So I could never have that conversation with now at some point, we, you know, we, of course, went to separate colleges and all of that, so we didn't really keep in touch.

Christopher:

You know, but again, you know, that was what that was. But then, you know, after college, we end up coming back together, again, on the same level of just give back two peas in the pot, having fun with joking and stuff like that. But again, back of my head, you shouldn't be friends with him because he's not he's not safe like that. And you should, you know, he's bringing you down. Right?

Whitney:

And he wasn't turning out.

Christian:

And it wasn't

Christopher:

to the point that he was like, hey, man. I wanna go to your church because I like what your pastor be saying. He's real. And I said, okay. Cool.

Christopher:

Not only that, oh, man. I feel like I'm called to preach, which I saw. Because I knew that his grandfather was like a preacher. I was like, okay. You you you got it on your too.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

Yeah. And then he's pre preaching the first time in my church and then, you know, and then of course not too long that he tragically passed away. But I say all I have to say is that you never know. Mhmm. And I think and one of the things I have on this is don't aim to look good, aim to be good.

Christopher:

Yeah. And that starts with being real. And it starts with acknowledging being real. And I appreciate even past me with all the anxieties and the worries I had, I never lost my ability to see what's real.

Christian:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

And to hold on to that evil and all the other bullshit that was under my head that was causing me to be to torture myself. Yeah. And and I appreciate that about me. And I got I give myself a little clap on my hand for sticking on my own on to what's real and realizing that friends matter. Yeah.

Christopher:

And that people matter.

Whitney:

Absolutely.

Christopher:

And I appreciate even my grandmother even after. She probably wanna stand still in it because there was all sorts of people that came to the house, but she just sat there and listened and loved on them and all of that. But they were also some unsavory characters, but they respected the house Yeah. On this corner. We lived across the street from a fucking trap house.

Christopher:

And even them was like, hey, don't mess with mama Lucy's house. Don't don't rob her house. Like, look, Stay away from that because this is a this is a good place.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

And I appreciated that because as I was going through trying to navigate all the other shit that was going on the world, trying to find God, trying to figure out how to relate to God with all the doctrine and stuff like that, I could realize and recognize what, you know, what was real. Yeah. And I held on to that.

Whitney:

Yeah. I think there's something in that for me. Mhmm. And this is fuck it. Like, it's testing the spirit by the spirit.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right? And so, like, we can say in your example about like, even with your grandmother. Right? Like, she's seeing the humanity of people.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

Right? Like, in there, they their actions may their let me be clear, especially with trap houses and shit like that. Like, maybe their actions speak more morally to something that we might not be aligned with. Right? But, like, the spirit of that person, hey.

Whitney:

They might be trying to make it. So Yeah. Yeah.

Christian:

I was gonna make this,

Whitney:

but, like, exactly. Literally, everybody's trying to cope. Right.

Christopher:

Right. I was

Whitney:

trying to get through this thing called life, and they're doing the best that they know how to do in each moment. Yeah. And even if you're like, oh, they know better. No. No.

Whitney:

No. Clearly, in this moment, they don't.

Christopher:

They don't.

Whitney:

They made a decision based on what felt like the best option at the time based on what was available to them. So but, like, even that her being able to sit down and have conversations with that because you can see that person. Right? Or, like, you and your friend, Josh, what'd you say? Joseph.

Whitney:

Mhmm. Yeah. Like, even with Joseph. Right? It's this idea that, like, okay.

Whitney:

Yeah. You're not saved. Right? Like, you don't got the label. Mhmm.

Whitney:

But, like, you are good. Yeah. And when I test the goodness in me by the goodness in you, we match. Yeah. Right?

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And so and like that that is the thing that matters. And so to to go back to your question, Christian, of like, how do we do this? Right? Test the spirit by the spirit.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right. If you does it match? Right? Like, if I can and and and that even testing the spirit by spirit requires a level of vulnerability because that's the

Christian:

test. Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right? And so, like

Christian:

Because the test could be either, like, there is a mismatch and is it because I am not the person, like, I am not putting out the type of energy that I want matched? Yes.

Whitney:

Right? Yes.

Christian:

It's like, oh, does it match? Oh, crap. It match. I match you. Shit.

Christian:

Right. Like, you know, that might be the realization. It's like, oh, man, what have I

Whitney:

And that's the realization. I match you.

Christian:

Yeah. Right.

Whitney:

Because you put out something. Yeah. And if it wasn't authentic to you, why are you not putting out the thing that's authentic to you? Y'all match.

Christian:

And I

Whitney:

think that that's that's the realization, especially, like, in relationships. So when I it is, to me, one of the reddest of flags when you ask somebody, like, oh, what happened in your last relationship? And it's always somebody else's fault. Right. But you were there.

Christopher:

You were there. You were privy to that. Right.

Whitney:

And y'all somehow y'all match.

Christopher:

There was something about your energy that kept you there.

Christian:

Right. So, like, where kept them there.

Whitney:

Where is your ownership Yeah. In, like, your part of the thing. Right? And so, like, I think that that is the thing. So it's a can I can I give a quick example?

Whitney:

I know we had the so I told you I'm outside. I'm not outside. I'm literally inside. I'll be dating now. And, like, I'm not like, I just I've always been like a like, oh, let me play it cool.

Whitney:

Like, let me be easy, at least externally, because I'm neurodivergent and sometimes I'd be freaking out in my head. So, like, I'd be cool as a cucumber outside.

Christian:

Are you masking?

Whitney:

Uh-huh. Yeah. I'd be masking heavy. Okay. Mhmm.

Whitney:

And so, like, in talking to new people, new person, like, one of the things that, like, has happened, I was just like, oh, shit. Like, let me be real about how I feel. Right? And that's not a thing I think I would have done first before. Right?

Whitney:

Like, I might show you, but to, like, actually use the words. Right? I am interested. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney:

Or, like, bitch, do I like you?

Christopher:

I like you a little bit.

Whitney:

Wait a minute.

Christian:

Do I like you a lot? I really do like

Whitney:

They're like, yeah. Yeah. You cool. But, like Yeah. Put their fuck.

Whitney:

I wasn't damn it. I didn't.

Christopher:

That's what that's what happened. There's a cautious optimism you're experiencing.

Whitney:

Yeah. Always. With everything, what are you talking about?

Christopher:

I got you right here.

Whitney:

But but, like, in saying that

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

In saying the thing, what I have found is that, like, one of two things happens. Either you cut to the quick quickly. Mhmm. And, like, you're vulnerable. The thing either, like, didn't go.

Whitney:

Right? And now you know, and you can move forward however you need to move forward. Or you are vulnerable, and it opens a door for the other person to be vulnerable, and y'all match.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Christian:

There you go. Right? And it's just like unless you go for it. Right.

Whitney:

And not to say that means you're gonna match in perpetuity. But, like, now we know Mhmm. Something matches. Something matches and, like, there is somewhere else to go from here versus, like, oh, everybody's just gonna I don't know. Be here in the Yeah.

Whitney:

You're just gonna orbit around

Christian:

each other.

Whitney:

Right. And, like, you know, and it's just like but, like, it's actually really beautiful. And the last time I did that, I was like, I wanna have a conversation about how hard it is to be vulnerable, which is also vulnerable. Right? Yes.

Whitney:

Like, oh, this is a thing I'm working on because, like, I and so I'm like, when you lead with it Yeah. You either and, like, there was one situation where, like, and you know this because you read it. Mhmm. But, like to Christian. I'm pointing at Christian.

Whitney:

I'm normally when I say you, it's normally

Christian:

It's normally me.

Christopher:

Right. Right.

Whitney:

But, like, to to be semi vulnerable and get a completely nonvulnerable response.

Christian:

That shit sucks.

Christopher:

It does.

Whitney:

But it's telling and it's It is. Formation. Right. And, like, then using that information

Christian:

It is.

Whitney:

It is information. Decision about how To move. To move. Because then you're like, oh, well, that first of all, that's not really aligned to how, like

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

That I expect people to, like, in my in my closest couples to interact with me. Right? And then you do it and somebody does it back and you're like,

Christian:

oh. Yeah. Yeah. That's a screen.

Christopher:

Right. What if that moment when Jesus was was receiving the I guess the what was good? I'm sorry. The moment when Jesus when that lady broke the alabaster box

Whitney:

Uh-huh.

Christopher:

And wept

Christian:

On Jesus. On the

Christopher:

street. Jesus.

Whitney:

We cleaned them with our hairs.

Christopher:

With our hair.

Christian:

That's Mary. What about her?

Christopher:

Who is it that one? No. It was the broke the alabaster box, and she anointed him before his crucifixion. Yes. Okay.

Christopher:

So that

Whitney:

was Sorry. It was the gnat.

Christian:

Yep. Uh-huh. Anointed him with the

Christopher:

But but he anointed him for crucifixion. And when Judas has said, you know, that could have been given to the poor. What what if that was was Judas' way of of telling on himself that he wasn't safe?

Whitney:

I think absolutely it is.

Christopher:

Right? Because he had a an appearance of of looking good, but couldn't recognize the goodness of the moment right there.

Whitney:

He wasn't testing the spirit by the spirit. He was worried about the performance.

Christopher:

Right. And he told and that told and that informed Jesus of how to

Whitney:

It's information. Jewish.

Christian:

But the interesting thing Right. Is that nobody else noticed.

Christopher:

Yeah. No.

Christian:

None of the rest of them noticed because they're all like, am I gonna betray you? Bitch, you don't know yourself.

Whitney:

Here's the thing. It's it's not that they didn't it may not be that they didn't notice. That but that's a hard check.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

If you tell me, Christian, let's say we sitting in the room and it's us and maybe a couple other people you really like.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And you say, one of y'all is gonna betray me.

Christopher:

And so how we gonna know the same that put that put this to him when we're in the dish and it

Whitney:

But we all did it.

Christopher:

And now it's

Christian:

like any more information, Christian. Like,

Christopher:

is that but but John was like, master, who is it? And everybody else is like, Lord, is that like, John's like, I know it ain't

Whitney:

right. But that

Christian:

that's what I'm saying. Like, that's

Whitney:

the That's me.

Christopher:

That's interesting.

Whitney:

Go ahead and tell us.

Christian:

In a way, showed his hand. Right. But, like, not everybody was paying.

Whitney:

Well, and I'm wondering if they was peeping, but they were so absorbed with self that they

Christian:

did it.

Christopher:

They didn't they didn't they didn't register.

Christian:

It's really it's really like your friend.

Whitney:

Girl. Okay. Yeah. Can I tell a quick story about this Nat? This Nat don't live in this room.

Whitney:

I have plants. And so, like, sometimes you will get a Nat. Literally, we were closing off the room and that motherfucker took a little last little crack to come on and fly in. He said, oh, y'all finna record and here's Me too. He wanna harass us every episode.

Whitney:

I don't have a a house that is infested with gnats. I promise it's this one gnat. He just he he wanna be in a room where it

Christian:

happens. So bad. So bad. Oh my god. But someone else was in

Christopher:

Somebody read Carnated.

Whitney:

I could just be the flower

Christopher:

on the wall.

Whitney:

Can you stay off my lashes?

Christopher:

God. That could just be a fly on the Whitney.

Christian:

Okay. Don't.

Whitney:

Everything in that sentence was wrong. Oh, wrong. Wrong.

Christian:

Wrong. Yeah. But, like, you know, we don't they didn't they couldn't have a moment of that Sondheim of, like, there's something going on with Jesus.

Whitney:

And you're like, this

Christian:

that is a really weird thing to say when she's doing this.

Christopher:

Why did

Christian:

he say that? And, like

Christopher:

Because everybody else thought it was like, y'all

Whitney:

Maybe they didn't hear that. They just looked at it was like, nigga.

Christopher:

Yeah. Right.

Christian:

But, of course, to Chris' point, they may have thought it as well. And he just said it out loud.

Christopher:

This could have been with the poor. And everybody's like, yes. Like, all of y'all are idiots.

Christian:

Look at his nigga. Know himself.

Whitney:

He did. Right. Yes. So because, like, what is it? Out of the, like,

Christian:

out of

Whitney:

overflow over the heart, the mouth speaks.

Christopher:

Mouth speak. Right.

Whitney:

Right? And so, like, people are going to show show them who you are. Like Perform

Christopher:

right. With performative morality.

Whitney:

They are going to show you who they are. Mhmm. Right. People are gonna show their hand. And I think the other piece of that is, like, it's never too late to rezone a nigga.

Whitney:

Love.

Christopher:

Yep. Like, it's

Whitney:

never and I don't care how much time you have. I'm sorry, y'all. Personal situation. I just got hit. I have a friend that I have had for over thirty years who is going through a really fucking tough time.

Christopher:

Yeah.

Whitney:

And because of that tough time, their vision of what is real and what is not has been distorted. It is. And that person recently told me they don't wanna be friends anymore. Oh. And I accept that.

Christopher:

Yeah. I

Whitney:

accept that because that's your truth right now. And like you say, it's not a thing where I close the door. We still follow each other on socials and all

Christian:

of that.

Whitney:

I love this person with my whole heart. Yeah. But, like, I can't keep throwing myself in the line of fire of your mess. Yeah. Right?

Whitney:

Mhmm. And it is sorry. It is one of those moments where, like, true story, this person, like, while they got my whole heart has, like, had to sit in different zones throughout our friendship because of how they are. Yeah. Right?

Whitney:

Mhmm. And, like, I love them deeply. I know they still love me. Like, this this is not on the table for questioning. But because of what's going on with you

Christian:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Whitney:

You had to move to zone, like, six f. Right. It's arbitrary. I made it up.

Christian:

Outer zone.

Whitney:

Yeah. Like, you've you've had to move outer. Yeah. Because, like, you are not in a place to be safe for you, let alone me. Me.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And it is painful. Right? Like

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

Yeah. We talking with thirty two years of friendship.

Christian:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Whitney:

Bitch, I'm only 39. Oh my god. Sorry. You know, and somebody who has a moniker that is a family. Right?

Whitney:

Like, I call this person my brother. This person has called my mother mommy. Like, you know? Right. And it's never too late.

Whitney:

Right? It is it is one of those things where, yes, you're moving to an outer you're not moving off the board. Right. Because of what you said earlier, Christian. Like, I there is a hope in our prayer for reconciliation.

Whitney:

There is an opportune like, I'm leaving the opportunity.

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And truly, real niggashe, I'm expecting it.

Christian:

Yeah.

Whitney:

But, like, I don't know when. I don't know if it's deathbed shit. I hope not. Right. But like, I value you enough as a person to say right now, we can't walk side by side.

Christian:

Yeah. Yep.

Whitney:

Right? But like, one day maybe we can.

Christian:

One day.

Whitney:

You know? Maybe one day we can again. Yeah. And it it's just one of those things where it took me years because, honestly, this person needed to move there a while ago.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

And it has taken me years. And, like, by the time he said it, like, I really had reached a point of acceptance of, like, this can't continue. Like, Spirit's team had been like, see, you see how you're off task? Like, do you see how this is actually activating some of your shit? Right?

Christopher:

Right.

Whitney:

And you're you're trying to work through that and you can't continue to work through that. This need to be all things to all people. This need to, like, solve everybody's things. You can't keep working through that because this person needs you to be that person and you are not her right

Christopher:

now. Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right? And so, like, we gotta wait until we orbit to where you can be those things for yourself and, like, I can show up as who I am. Right. And that not be insufficient for you because you need so much from me.

Christian:

Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney:

And it's That's real. Yeah. Like and it it is one of those things where it's just like, this is where we are. You you had to get rezoned. And the the crazy thing about my zones is love encompasses all of them.

Christian:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Like, it's love in every zone. There's no less love. If you're on the board, baby, you're covered by love.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Whitney:

Right? What changes is proximity. Yep.

Christian:

And access.

Whitney:

And I

Christopher:

think Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I had to realize even for myself at 25. I think one of the last conversations I had with my mother, you know, we were she was, you know, a terrible situation went down where some family members were being kicked out of the house that we were all living in.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

And I decided to go with them because I reasoned that that was not an appropriate response to whatever was going on. And so I I voluntarily left. One of the things that, you know, she was she called me when I was out and one of the things she said she asked was, oh, you know, let me know when you're coming home, you know, such and such. And I said, I'm not coming home.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

Because I'm I'm gonna be with them. And one of the things she said to me on the phone was, like, well, I guess you made your choice. And I think at that moment, it wasn't like I heard it. I saw it sounds like I hated her, but it was definitely moments like, yeah. I guess I made a choice.

Christopher:

And one of the things and it will and and at that at that moment, I had decided. I was like, well, okay. I love you. But clearly and I love what we shared. I love the conversations that we've had.

Christopher:

And I love the insights and the the way that you that you've challenged me. And and and brought me to a certain level of thinking that I would not have otherwise. You're the one that really kept me real. But in this moment, whatever you got going on, I'm still trying to figure out me. Yeah.

Christopher:

And maybe distance is what's needed.

Christian:

Absolutely.

Christopher:

Because you you twice or whatever older than you're 25 older than me right now. I still need to figure it out. Yeah. Yep. And and, yeah, I hadn't talked with her for years until, like, one other moment when my sister my old second oldest sister was in the hospital.

Christopher:

And we connected there, and I was still kinda iffy and on the eggshells even then. But the likes that was the last time I saw her alive.

Whitney:

Mhmm.

Christopher:

And part of me wished that that would not have been the case, that there could have been reconciliation or a level of healing and wholeness. But I had to make a decision for me that I was not going to be vulnerable with someone that I could not necessarily trust.

Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher:

For them to be with them. And and at most, they could get was well wishes and and thoughtful prayers because you have to work out your shit too. And I wish I hope you do. Yeah. And apparently, with my second old sister, according to that, she kinda did recognize some, you know, other ways towards the end of her life.

Christopher:

And that was a gift for me to to realize to hear that. Yeah. Even my nephew was he was very she was very close with her. I mean, that was that was his grandmother. And we have a relationship today, and and I'm, you know, here you know, of course, in conversation with him, I hear things about her and things like that, things like that that give me a level of confidence and safety that that she's, you know, that she came around and was able to be for him and even for, you know, her second oldest daughter where she really could not be for me Mhmm.

Christopher:

In pivotal moments. And that gave me peace. Yeah. So yeah. Like, sometimes it don't get figured out on this

Whitney:

side. That's really

Christopher:

It it just don't and I

Whitney:

You gotta be okay with that. You gotta

Christopher:

be okay with that.

Christian:

You have to you have to find peace. Yeah. And, in you know, as we as we wrap up this episode, if you're a person who is currently trying to figure out how to navigate a relationship that is not feeling like it needs to be in zone one anymore

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

That's a hard decision. And we wish the absolute best for you. Mhmm. Take your time, but make those decisions whatever decision that is for yourself.

Christopher:

Yes. And so three practical tips that I wanna give for that.

Christian:

Okay.

Christopher:

Number one, lean in the courage. Speak of truth. Even when it's hard. Mhmm. Number two, set boundaries like

Whitney:

we're

Christopher:

talking about. Vulnerability doesn't mean letting yourself be mistreated. And to wrap it up, three, practice forgiveness. That means release the burden of resentment even if reconciliation is impossible.

Christian:

Yeah. There you go. So if you need to work through those in this season, let us know if you wanna talk about it. If you feel like sharing, you can do so in the comments or on our Facebook page, wherever you can find us. Instagram.

Christian:

But yeah. Drop us a line

Whitney:

in the email. The name

Christian:

of the season is vulnerability. So expect lots of near tears and heartfeltness because that's where we're going. So Yeah. If you're not ready, we understand. Honestly, this is not, like, easy work.

Christian:

This is not light work.

Whitney:

No. But it's worth the heaviest shit I've ever done.

Christian:

It's it's Yeah. It's it's worth it.

Christopher:

Mhmm.

Christian:

Because what is the fucking alternative?

Whitney:

You know, guys, no risk, no reward.

Christian:

Yeah. Right?

Whitney:

Yeah. And even when you take a risk and you don't get a reward, what you do get is still useful. So just remember that.

Christopher:

In every complicated relationship, lies the potential for transformation. Not because it's easy, but because it's real.

Whitney:

Yeah.

Christian:

So let's be real. And, y'all be real. Be easy. And we will see you next week.

Christopher:

Bye. Holla.

Whitney:

Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Uproot Project podcast. We hope you found fresh perspective and continue to make space for real growth. If you enjoy today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcast. You can follow us on social media at the Uproot Project Podcast on Instagram,com.Untilcom. Until next time, keep living fully, learning openly and loving deeply.

Whitney:

We'll see you soon.

Episode Video

Creators and Guests

Christian Barnes
Host
Christian Barnes
Christian Barnes is an avid reader and spiritual seeker on a journey of excavating and rebuilding the tenets of her faith one belief at a time. She is a proud mom and wife who believes in the power of connection and creativity. She cherishes the moments spent with friends and family, sharing food, laughter, and love. When she doesn’t have her nose in a book, you can find her painting her nails or watching football.
Website Link
Christopher Barnes
Host
Christopher Barnes
Chris Barnes is a pastor, theologian, and mystic leading The Tree Community, a progressive Christian space in Houston, TX. He is dedicated to creating inclusive environments that encourage people to live fully, learn openly, and love deeply. With over two decades of ministry and church experience, Chris helps individuals deconstruct toxic beliefs, relearn truths about God, and grow into their full potential. Through The UProot Project Podcast, he explores faith, mental health, and spirituality in a pluralistic world. His approach emphasizes grace, presence, and intentionality, guiding others toward authentic transformation and a deeper connection with the divine.
Website Link
Whitney Weathersby
Host
Whitney Weathersby
Whitney is a very Black, queer, neurodivergent, recovering church kid and intuitive therapist who is all about deep conversations and disruptive cackles. She is the friend who will pull your card while making you laugh because while healing is hard work, it never gave stuffy. Known for what her friends have dubbed 'Whitney-isms,' you can count on her to unwittingly drop a gem that will shake things up – and to immediately forget what she said. A student of Black feminism, womanism, and decolonial thought, her perspectives are grounded in the liberation of all people—collectively and individually. Whitney’s work centers the experiences of marginalized folks, amplifying often silenced voices, and holding space for the messy, nonlinear path to self-actualization. Whether in therapy sessions, on the podcast, or in everyday conversations, she brings a mix of radical honesty, irreverent humor, and a deep sense of care, leaving people feeling both seen and challenged to grow.