Christian: 00:12

Welcome to the Uproot Project podcast, where we dig deep to uncover and dismantle toxic beliefs about God, ourselves, and each other. Our goal is to replant new insights in the fertile soil of wisdom and love, fostering personal growth and transformation. Join us as we explore new ways of thinking and living in a world of complexity and diversity. Welcome back to the Uproot project podcast. I am Christian SheHer.

Christopher: 00:53

I am Christopher, e, him, and his.

Whitney: 00:57

And I am Whitney, sheher, New Year's Same OG.

Christian: 01:02

Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back.

Christopher: 01:05

Welcome back.

Christian: 01:08

So we are continuing our journey into vulnerability this week, but we're gonna start with our little mindfulness moment.

Whitney: 01:17

Period. Okay, y'all. So you know the drill. If you are somewhere safe, go ahead and just take a breath. Close your eyes or lower your gaze, and we're just gonna take a moment to pause and reflect.

Whitney: 01:30

I want you to take a deep breath through your nose and slowly release it out your mouth. Let's do that one more time. Deep breath in your nose, and let that thing out your mouth, maybe with a sigh. Now I want you to bring into your mind a moment where you spiritually felt vulnerable. So maybe the weight of your questions or your doubts or even your hope or faith felt particularly tender.

Whitney: 02:06

And instead of running or shying away from this memory, I just wanna invite you to sit with it gently as if you were holding something really precious to you. Notice what comes up in your body. Is there tightness? Is there warmth? Is there stillness?

Whitney: 02:27

Whatever it is, just let it be. There's no need to fix, change, alter anything. Within this vulnerability is what lies the root of our connection to ourself, to other people, and to the greater unknown. Keep in mind that this is not a weakness. It's an invitation to grow, trust, and release what's no longer serving us.

Whitney: 02:59

So take another second here with it, and I want you to take another deep breath in through your nose. And as you exhale, just imagine sending yourself grace to that space you fill it in your body. Grace for your questions, for your journey, for living. And when you're ready, come back into the space around you, flutter your eyelids open, and carry that grace with you throughout the rest of this episode and preferably the rest of your day or your your night, and we're gonna go on with the show.

Christopher: 03:43

Awesome.

Christian: 03:45

Very good.

Whitney: 03:48

Y'all alright?

Christopher: 03:49

Yeah.

Whitney: 03:50

Is that the sound of grace flowing through your body? Mhmm. Your innermost being balance? Yeah. Sometimes listen.

Whitney: 03:57

Silence has been doing wonders for me.

Christian: 03:59

Truly.

Whitney: 04:04

Yes. Come on. Sounds.

Christopher: 04:07

Right. I mean, you said silence was yeah. That's also God's grace. Noise.

Whitney: 04:11

Yeah. Grace for the noise.

Christopher: 04:13

Grace for the noise.

Whitney: 04:14

Grace for the noise. Christian rolled her eyes so hard.

Christopher: 04:18

Oh, grace.

Whitney: 04:20

I love it. Alright.

Christopher: 04:21

Grace upon grace. K. This section is called a vulnerable god is a venerable god.

Christian: 04:32

Which is what?

Christopher: 04:34

Veneration. Venerable. I think a lot of us understand it, but, but for the for the uninitiated, vulnerability means, you know, worthy of being revered or worshiped, even. It's worshiping this in a separate category of veneration, but veneration at its root just means deep reverence and respect.

Whitney: 04:57

So then put it together.

Christopher: 04:59

So a vulnerable god is a god that is worthy of being revered and honored and respected and worshiped. Yeah.

Whitney: 05:08

And why is that?

Christopher: 05:09

And why is that? From a logical standpoint, it it lends itself to a kind of soft power that we tend to like or tend to appreciate when it comes to, you know, like, in the political sphere of, you know, diplomacy.

Whitney: 05:35

Mhmm.

Christopher: 05:35

And that you, that you that you show that you have the maturity or the bigness or the, the grandness such to make concessions and to allow oneself to, be in a space, you know, in existing, allowing yourself to be offended without taking offense

Whitney: 05:58

Mhmm.

Christopher: 05:59

For the greater for the greater purpose of moving and advancing, an agenda forward. Yeah. And so when you think about God in that sense, that God is so great and is so grand, if he is going to be that, then he cannot be, petty, when it comes to dealing with, humans that are limited in their scope and understanding and, and intelligence as were, such that he could be particularly offended by us.

Whitney: 06:41

Mhmm. Yeah. Okay.

Christopher: 06:43

You know, so even think of it in terms of me and Sydney, me and my daughter. She's a toddler. Mhmm. She's 3. There are certain things that are within her scope and capacity, and there are things that are not.

Christopher: 06:55

And I exist outside of her scope and capacity as supposed to be as the big, mature, fully, functionally, emotionally intelligent adult.

Whitney: 07:04

Mhmm.

Christopher: 07:04

And so if I am that,

Christopher: 07:07

then there are certain things

Christopher: 07:08

that Sydney does as a 3 year old that really should not bother me all that much

Whitney: 07:13

Mhmm.

Christopher: 07:14

Within reason.

Whitney: 07:15

Yeah.

Christopher: 07:17

But, you know, again, because we understand that we are also, as adults, raising our children on a journey, there are some things that does bother us when we see our kids do things, and so we have to mitigate that. But if God is to be who we say he is in terms of complete, absolute, all encompassing, perfected, mature, then that would mean that when we engage with Him or He engages with with us, He has a lot of room and a lot of space for us, as we deal with our BS. Mhmm. And and so, you know, when I see people who say, oh, you know, God is offended by the things we do. And it's like, no, he's not.

Christopher: 08:03

He's not. He can't be. If he's gonna if he wants to be in a relationship with us, he definitely has to have very much big space.

Whitney: 08:09

But, also, like, God made humans. He knows your functioning. He knows the limitations of your capacity. Like, I often think of it as, like, God looking down and going, there they go again. Yeah.

Christopher: 08:23

Yeah. Like, here

Whitney: 08:24

we go, guys.

Christopher: 08:26

Here we go. And it's not to say that God does not, you know, God does not have room for a a sense of justice or or a sense of things, but he definitely just goes about it a different way. Yeah. He's not vindictive because he is of, not so much outside standing in, but he is not just outside looking in, but he's also within the the sphere that within it all, he has a more holistic view of how to carry about what we think is justice.

Whitney: 08:54

Mhmm.

Christopher: 08:54

What and when it comes to us and our sense of justice and our sense of it's very, very small. Punitive, retributive Mhmm. Payback Yeah. Those of things to the point that we project it on God and say, vengeance is mine. I will repay.

Christopher: 09:12

And it's like, God ain't like us.

Christian: 09:15

Right.

Christopher: 09:15

In that sense. You know, he has justice. He will repay, but he repays in the terms of in a in a in a in a sense of restoring

Whitney: 09:25

Mhmm.

Christopher: 09:25

And in a sense of, renewing. And that's going to take, different methods, different skill sets, different tools than we have at our disposal as humans individually, to be able to do the kind of work that God is is doing. And so in order to do that, that requires God to be vulnerable. Yeah. It requires God to, allow himself to be contextualized and described in ways that it may or not be accurately.

Christopher: 09:56

But in order to be in relationship with us, he has to, in so many ways, allow himself to be defined by our understanding.

Whitney: 10:08

Wow. What what something that struck me as you were talking is that, like, the vulnerability to be misunderstood.

Christopher: 10:15

Mhmm.

Whitney: 10:15

Right? Like, to show up anywhere represented. Know that you are going to be misrepresented and misunderstood, like, even by people with with good intentions. And I think about, like, as humans, that is one of our big reasons why we aren't as vulnerable. Right?

Whitney: 10:33

It's like, you won't get me. Yeah. I'll be misunderstood. You will take this the wrong way. Right?

Whitney: 10:39

Or people always we love to speak

Whitney: 10:41

out the

Whitney: 10:41

flutes when we get in our our bag. Right? Right. People like, you you know, people always da da da da da da da da da. Or you don't think I'm weird or the you know, like, these

Christopher: 10:51

Mhmm.

Whitney: 10:51

The idea that someone won't really see us Yeah. Is the thing that often keeps us from being vulnerable with each other. But if if we are going to take the example of God, and not only God as an external entity like you mentioned earlier, God is also within us. Like Mhmm. We are all part of the whole that is God.

Whitney: 11:10

And so, like, if we can I love how you framed vulnerability? Because when we first talk about this so y'all, we don't just come on here and, like, talk out our asses. Not completely.

Christian: 11:19

Yeah.

Whitney: 11:20

A little bit. A little bit out the ass, but we got outlines and things. And so we we sit down before every season and come up with this, and I remember you saying, like, a vulnerable god is a vulnerable god. And I was like, oh my god. Here he go with this alliteration that I love because he's a preacher.

Whitney: 11:34

But but also, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean? And so and and I was just like, god as vulnerable really challenged the like, it like, those two things caused some cognitive dissonance for me. Mhmm. Because I was like, that is not a word that, like, I have ever used her to describe life.

Whitney: 11:56

But then when you describe it this way, right, like, this ability and I love what you said at the top of this, to oh, hell. That fast. It went out my brain. Give me a second. Don't nobody say it.

Whitney: 12:06

It's gonna come back. Watch ADHD in action. Hold on. The ability to be offended, like, you know, put yourself I'm I'm paraphrasing. You can go back and clean it.

Whitney: 12:17

But to put yourself in the line of offense without actually being offended. Right?

Christopher: 12:23

Right.

Whitney: 12:24

So that that, I was like, oh, yes. So I I think granted you described this before. And so I was just like, oh, yeah. I'm on board with this. But that is the example.

Whitney: 12:33

And if there is a God that lives within us that can do that, that means we also have the ability to do that. Mhmm. And if you can find community with people who do that, like, you end up seeing the God and peep you know what I'm saying? For real. Like, the

Christopher: 12:49

You do.

Whitney: 12:49

Deepening of the relationships, like, the

Christopher: 12:51

Right.

Whitney: 12:51

The connection that I think so many people seek that we often get false proxies for and settle for, for false proxies.

Christopher: 12:59

Yeah.

Whitney: 12:59

When you actually allow the vulnerability of God to be reflected in your life and those relationships, you get the real deal holy field of what we were looking for in the 1st place.

Christopher: 13:12

Right. And so exactly. And and so this is what made me think about even with Jamie Fox, his new special or whatever that just came out some months ago, and just about the situation. A lot of the special was really about his his situation with his stroke and all of those things.

Whitney: 13:32

Mhmm.

Christopher: 13:33

And, you know, a lot of us in certain circles had issues with him saying that God blessed him with a stroke.

Whitney: 13:41

Mhmm.

Christopher: 13:42

You know, because it made him forget. But, again, all of us have have the as a as an aspect of being human, have the entitlement of interpreting our suffering in whichever way we need to Absolutely. To advance us.

Whitney: 13:57

Absolutely.

Christopher: 13:59

And, yes, we're and and when we say our truth, we're allowing ourselves to be vulnerable Mhmm. In those moments to be, received or to be critiqued. Yeah. And and so, you know, when Jamie said that stuff like that and I for me personally, I don't I don't jive with a god that that those strokes at people to get people to get them in line. I I don't I don't appreciate that that understanding god.

Christopher: 14:24

Like Yeah. You know? And and there's a whole lot of other factors that we could say as the people who have not had a stroke.

Whitney: 14:31

Right. Whoever lived his experience. Right.

Christopher: 14:33

Yeah. Have a lot of opinions to say around how he has processed his experience.

Whitney: 14:38

Yeah.

Christopher: 14:39

And that's also, you know, our you know, that's that's that's what we do. That's why we because we're all processing God and understanding God in our own ways together.

Whitney: 14:49

Within our own capacity.

Christopher: 14:50

Within our own Within

Whitney: 14:51

our own frameworks.

Christopher: 14:53

And so I I I I appreciate I I don't I don't forgot where I was trying to go with this.

Whitney: 14:58

It's okay. But GEDHD in action.

Christopher: 15:00

Right. Real time, y'all. But but it just like you say, it just brought to mind a lot of the things, and I even wrote about it. It was like, hey. That's his experience.

Whitney: 15:10

Mhmm. I

Christopher: 15:10

I don't necessarily gravitate towards it, but let's actually unpack the idea of what we're saying when we say that a god gives us, certain things Yeah. Like accidents or sicknesses or disease or strife, to move us in a certain direction that he wants us and just how harmful that is, and the implications that come from that. And let let's untalk let's unpack it. Now if you wanna do that, that's fine.

Whitney: 15:39

Mhmm.

Christopher: 15:40

But here are the things that other people hear when you say that. And possibly, maybe when you hear it, you will want to unpack that and reinterpret what you think your suffering should mean. Yeah. But that's we can only do that when we begin to voice our truth and opinions and honor where where everybody is when they say their truth.

Whitney: 16:05

Yeah. And I think that it's that. Right? It's the honoring of people speaking their truth. Because I think that is the other so we've talked about I think on our first episode, we talked about, like, everybody in a safe space, and that is part of the reason why.

Whitney: 16:17

Because everybody don't let you honor they don't honor your truth or allow you to do so as well. And so determining, like, what places are honorific? That don't even mean that.

Christopher: 16:30

Right. Right. Right. Right.

Whitney: 16:31

But, you know, what places that will uphold that or have hold that space

Christopher: 16:35

Right.

Whitney: 16:36

Even in at the point of divergence, right, or disagreement? Right. How can are you in a space where your truth will be allowed to be your truth?

Christopher: 16:45

Mhmm.

Whitney: 16:46

At least your truth for this moment. Because, like, if we're gonna get real about it, your truth can change. Oh, it does.

Christopher: 16:51

It can change.

Whitney: 16:52

Right? The truth of the facts of the well, facts and truth are 2 different things, but, like, the truth of your situation can and will change. Mhmm. And as you change and process differently and have more information and restructure and do your frameworks and blah blah blah blah. Right?

Whitney: 17:06

Like, as you do all of that, like, are there spaces are there safe spaces where you are allowed to have whatever your truth is in that moment and allow for that thing to morph? Yeah.

Christopher: 17:19

Right. Yeah. That is it's it's

Whitney: 17:22

And that's on you to rightly divide. That's what I'm a say. Like, this is where your discernment comes in. Yeah. This is where not only discernment, but, like, paying attention to patterns, which honestly

Christopher: 17:31

is

Whitney: 17:32

my neurodivergent superpower. But paying attention to patterns. Right? Like, if you see every time something, like, somebody get a little weird with you or you feel the little the little energy shift

Christopher: 17:41

Mhmm.

Whitney: 17:41

Maybe that's not a safe space. And instead of being loyal for whatever reason, whether it's the, right, what is it? The time What is it? Sunk time fallacy or what? Sunk time fallacy.

Whitney: 17:51

Mhmm.

Christian: 17:51

But it's the same.

Whitney: 17:52

Yeah. Like, whether it's that, just because somebody been around don't mean they gotta be around.

Christian: 17:56

I mean, they get to stay around.

Whitney: 17:57

Right. You know what I'm saying? Like

Christopher: 17:59

You can always change you mind.

Whitney: 18:01

You can. Right? And and Especially

Christopher: 18:02

with new information at the horizon.

Whitney: 18:04

Exactly. And as we're at the top of the year, also considering that, like, when we release things, we make room for new things.

Christian: 18:13

Yeah. And I think that, like, I I kinda zoned out on y'all because I was I was thinking about the word

Whitney: 18:20

vulnerable. Truth. No.

Christian: 18:21

Like, I was thinking Vulnerable.

Whitney: 18:22

And we hold space for

Christopher: 18:24

I was Right. Right.

Christian: 18:25

No. Like, when he was describing it when you were describing, like, you know, the way that God is vulnerable and, you know, like, taking it, be offended without taking offense and all of this other kind of stuff, I was like, man, why does vulnerability sound so negative? Like, why why do we have this That's

Whitney: 18:42

negative to you.

Christian: 18:43

Yeah. Well, like Mhmm. Because the idea like, the way that what you were talking about is, like, take offense and don't be offended. Right?

Christopher: 18:51

Right.

Christian: 18:51

Or no. Hold on.

Christopher: 18:52

I'm Go ahead. Go ahead. Minute. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Christopher: 18:54

I'm sorry.

Christian: 18:55

Not be offended, You know, that you Mhmm. You know, that you don't have to be punitive. You don't have to be retributive. Like, all of these things is very much about, like, the aspect the reason that vulnerability is scary, which is and it's literally the definition. It is that you're susceptible to physical or emotional harm.

Whitney: 19:16

Yeah.

Christian: 19:16

And it's like yes. But that and that's the part we focus on. Right? We the fact that you are susceptible to emotional or physical harm.

Whitney: 19:26

Risk.

Christian: 19:27

Right? It's the risk aspect.

Whitney: 19:29

Right.

Christian: 19:29

Right? But, like, every risk has an reward, and we've never we don't tend to talk about the reward side

Whitney: 19:39

Mhmm.

Christian: 19:39

That is available with vulnerability Yeah. Which is what, like, you were kinda talking about. Like, oh, a God who is willing to be vulnerable, who is willing to be misunderstood, who's willing to take the risk to interact with us even though we gonna fuck up. Like, we get the opportunity to engage with them, and he gets the opportunity to be there with us and see the moments. You get the opportunity to be, like, truly in community Yes.

Christian: 20:09

And to truly feel supported and to truly feel seen. Like, you can't get that if you don't take the risk.

Whitney: 20:15

That's it. You don't. You better be the synthesizer. Yeah.

Christian: 20:19

Yeah. And so that that's, like but that was what when you said it, I was like, man, this feels negative. Like, it just feel it everything like, all the connotations we have about vulnerability, they they tend to focus on the risk of it. Yeah. And That's what I meant by negative.

Christian: 20:33

They tend to I gotcha. They focus on the risk of it. Right?

Christopher: 20:35

Yeah.

Whitney: 20:35

No. I I I got it when you started talking. I was just like,

Whitney: 20:37

oh, I

Whitney: 20:37

know where she's going. Yeah. That's exactly it.

Christian: 20:40

Yeah. But we we focus on their risk side, but, like, it's I read of course, I did. I read I read a book, and it was talking about how I think it was murder. It was talking about how we never think of now as the past future. So let me let me back.

Whitney: 21:04

No. Yes. Oh. Are we in the same space?

Christian: 21:07

So let me back

Whitney: 21:07

I think we're in the same space.

Christian: 21:09

Let me back up a little bit.

Christopher: 21:10

We could

Christian: 21:10

So there's, we they have these hypotheticals where it's like, oh, if I go to the past and I change something

Whitney: 21:18

Mhmm.

Christian: 21:18

It could have all of these effects on the future.

Whitney: 21:21

Yes. Mhmm.

Christian: 21:22

But in the present, we don't think the things I do now are gonna have effects on the future. Yeah. We don't think that.

Whitney: 21:31

Yeah.

Christian: 21:31

And so when it comes to vulnerability, we're like, oh, look at all these bad things

Whitney: 21:35

that proof

Whitney: 21:36

in the past.

Christian: 21:37

Right. Look at this could go like this. Right? We don't usually think that. It's like, it hurts right now.

Christian: 21:42

It's like, oh, but if I do this, it could do this, this. Like Yeah. Look at the butter look at the wings of the butterfly if I let myself be me instead of pretending to be somebody else.

Whitney: 21:56

Okay.

Christian: 21:57

Look at what could be like, the this is the I can't I'm messing up the phrase. It said, we don't think of now as the future's past. That's how it goes. Yeah. And I was just like

Whitney: 22:10

No. That's it. Mhmm. Listen. So I I recently I

Christopher: 22:14

feel it in my black body now. Like, the future is where it is. I can't go in the past.

Christian: 22:21

But this is

Christopher: 22:21

ask for me as a black person. This is right now. Right. Right. Right.

Christopher: 22:25

Yeah. It it it is the future past.

Christian: 22:26

This is the future.

Christopher: 22:27

There are people that have such great experiences in the past that they could have the luxury of looking back.

Whitney: 22:33

Oh, yeah. No. When we're making things great again.

Christopher: 22:35

Right. But, but as black people, we need

Whitney: 22:38

to have

Christopher: 22:38

gotten progressively better as we move forward.

Whitney: 22:41

Yeah. Right. No. That's real.

Christopher: 22:43

It's so

Whitney: 22:44

So what's interesting is I reread, because I'm gonna reread in spirit.

Christian: 22:48

Yeah. And

Whitney: 22:48

And so I reread Osho's Awareness.

Christian: 22:51

Oh, no. That one okay.

Whitney: 22:52

You you know, I'm I'm good for a nonfiction philosopher, new age, woo woo, bullshit,

Christian: 22:58

I'm headed in that direction

Christian: 22:59

So, you know, you're gonna have to send

Christian: 23:00

me all the stuff.

Whitney: 23:01

Well it's upstairs if you wanna borrow it, but I'm a need it back.

Christian: 23:04

No. I just get Yeah.

Christian: 23:06

I'll get one.

Whitney: 23:07

So, damn.

Christian: 23:08

You can't even just borrow a book there.

Christian: 23:10

No. I'm a mood reader. And so I

Whitney: 23:12

No. That's real.

Christian: 23:13

I might had that thing For 6 months before I get in the mood.

Whitney: 23:16

And I I just read it, so you that's fine. But yes. Yeah.

Christian: 23:19

But one of the things older people's books.

Whitney: 23:21

That's fair. One of the things Osho says because I think, like, even as a person that has done a lot of study about, like so, like, Eckhart Tolle's, power of now. Right? Like, being in the power of being in in the present moment.

Christian: 23:32

Yep. One

Whitney: 23:33

of the things Osho said that fucking shook me, and I was like and I think it shook me personally because of, because what?

Christian: 23:40

I had to describe jaw drop.

Whitney: 23:42

Oh, jaw

Whitney: 23:44

drop. Her chop chop.

Whitney: 23:45

And I

Whitney: 23:45

was like, where?

Christopher: 23:47

Chop chop. Think about my culture.

Whitney: 23:49

But, like, one of the things he says because I think, like, when we talk about anxiety, even from, like, a mental health professional stance. Right? Anxiety either is caused by living in the past or living in the future. OSHA goes further to say the future is nothing more than projections of the past. Mhmm.

Whitney: 24:04

That's all it is. That's all it is because

Christopher: 24:06

you

Christian: 24:06

can't It's not real. It hasn't happened.

Whitney: 24:08

Not only is it not real, you cannot project. It's just, like, my like, modifications of shits you already know.

Christopher: 24:17

Right. It is.

Christian: 24:18

Right? It's just a

Whitney: 24:19

it's And so, like, if you are expecting

Christian: 24:21

It's the Taco Bell of intellect. Basically, you're saying 5 ingredients and you put them in a different order.

Whitney: 24:26

What it is. Right? Or some like, oh, there was a pain point here, so I want the opposite of that pain. Like right? But, like, even in your understanding, whereas presence with here and now, you are open to literally all the possibilities of the universe.

Whitney: 24:39

And presence isn't just like if you read the book, which I recommend, you what I will say is you might find some resistance in your body as you read it. Follow that resistance. See where it

Whitney: 24:47

goes because it's,

Whitney: 24:48

like, Osho's kinda in your face. He's he's funny, but, like, philosopher funny. And so Oh, not funny. No. It's funny.

Whitney: 24:56

Yeah. Sometimes, there's a lot of repeating of things, and what I find is that sorry. I'm adjusting my mic. But what I find is the repeating is a necessity.

Christopher: 25:05

Sure. Mhmm.

Whitney: 25:06

The repetition is a necessity. And so even though it gets like, okay.

Christian: 25:10

Girl, I got it.

Whitney: 25:11

But, like, did you let it sink in?

Christopher: 25:13

Let's let's think

Christopher: 25:14

about it.

Whitney: 25:14

But, like, really, when you're, like, literally thinking about, like, oh, I don't have this, and I don't have that, and I want this, and I want that. You're literally toggling past, future, past, future.

Christopher: 25:24

Mhmm.

Whitney: 25:24

And that's it. That's crazy to me. Whereas, like, literally, vulnerability only exists in the now.

Christopher: 25:31

Yeah.

Whitney: 25:32

It only exists in the now. Right. Because if you're looking at the past, you're worried about the shit you got hurt. If you're worried about the future, you still don't based off the past. Right?

Whitney: 25:40

Mhmm. Vulnerability only exists in presence. When you get in your body

Christopher: 25:44

Right.

Whitney: 25:44

And say, fuck it. This is what I'm gonna do. It only exists right now.

Christian: 25:51

Yeah. You only you only have access to the benefits of vulnerability now. Right.

Christopher: 25:59

Right.

Christian: 25:59

And you can only actually get hurt now.

Whitney: 26:02

Now. Yeah. But here's the thing. And this is the because, like, as I think we talked about this in episode 1. Like, I have been on a crazy ass vulnerability journey for, like, the last Mhmm.

Whitney: 26:14

12, 13 months. And it goes deeper and deeper and deeper, and I'll be like, okay. Okay. We're we're at the bone. We're at the marrow.

Whitney: 26:22

Right. But one of the things that I find I remember telling someone this. I told a friend this recently, as we were talking about, like, our challenges with vulnerability. And I was like, the thing that makes it easier Mhmm. For me to be more vulnerable over time and not to say that it is easy, but the thing that actually alleviates a lot of the pressure is that the fear of safety, I realized I was externalizing.

Christian: 26:45

So what say it again.

Whitney: 26:46

So, like, the the fear of not being safe. Uh-huh. I was actually externalizing my safety. And so this idea that if you reject me, I'm rejected.

Christopher: 26:56

Oh.

Whitney: 26:57

But I'm not Right. Because I've got me.

Christian: 27:00

Yeah. Mhmm.

Whitney: 27:00

Right? And and so that's why I was like, I feel, like, I feel less vulnerable overall. Like, I feel more capable of speaking my truth. I feel more capable of advocating for myself. And I'm not listening.

Whitney: 27:11

This please don't take this as, like, oh, Whitney got it. She a 100% new. We're working our way. Okay. Right.

Whitney: 27:16

Right. We're making our way downtown, walking fast, places passed. Now we're homebound. Okay? But, like, the thing that is making this doable is this this deepening security within myself that no matter what happens, no matter what anybody thinks, I've got me.

Whitney: 27:34

I am okay. Mhmm. I won't I won't reject me.

Christian: 27:38

Yeah. Right.

Whitney: 27:38

Right? So I can only be rejected if I accept that rejection within myself.

Christopher: 27:43

Right.

Christian: 27:43

I Yeah. I don't.

Christopher: 27:45

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Whitney: 27:46

And, I mean, that's a that's interesting.

Christopher: 27:49

Mhmm.

Christian: 27:50

Because I'm like, there that is a that's a different that's a vulnerability with you.

Christopher: 27:57

Yeah. Right?

Christian: 27:58

Yeah. That's an access to, like you said, like, when you're talking about when you're no longer externalizing your safety

Christopher: 28:08

Mhmm.

Christian: 28:08

You can be in relationship with people, and they no longer have access to harm you the same way.

Whitney: 28:15

Literally. Right. Yeah.

Christopher: 28:16

Yeah. And that's and that's true. And I I even thought about when you talked about externalizing your safety. I I thought about moments in the past where I may have, like, felt, like, embarrassed about certain things. Mhmm.

Christopher: 28:29

And

Christopher: 28:29

I just couldn't shake it. And I just remember me just all of a sudden, it's like, I refuse to be embarrassed.

Christopher: 28:35

Period. And

Christopher: 28:36

then, like, that went away. It was like, yeah. Oh, okay.

Whitney: 28:40

Crazy how that works. Right.

Christopher: 28:41

Right. It was like, oh, shit. Okay. I could just, like, not be in that space. Like

Whitney: 28:45

Yeah. Yeah. So you wanna know what's funny? I used to have and I'm I'm I don't particularly care for this person, so I'm not gonna say no names, but I'm gonna tell call up the situation. Mhmm.

Whitney: 28:53

I used to work with a person who would all the time say, oh my god. I get secondhand embarrassment so bad. I'm such an empath, which I just wanna say, like, listen. No shade to the empath. I too feel deeply, but y'all need better energetic boundaries.

Whitney: 29:07

That's really what this is about. It's a lack of energetic boundaries. However, moving on. Yeah. And I was like, how the fuck are you secondhand embarrassed when that person may not even be firsthand embarrassed?

Christopher: 29:17

Right. Well, why are you?

Whitney: 29:18

So how this crazy that you thought it was second.

Christopher: 29:22

Right.

Whitney: 29:22

That's that's your own projection.

Christopher: 29:23

That's your own decision.

Christian: 29:24

Yeah. No. That's that's your own shit. And so, like feel.

Whitney: 29:28

Like, not only are you not safe within yourself, nobody is safe with you because you think people feel what you feel. People don't even really get to be there. You know what I'm saying? And so

Whitney: 29:38

I was just

Whitney: 29:39

like and it's crazy because she's one of the people that, like, nobody like, people kinda shy away from because there's a lack of authenticity. Right. And even her basic good morning Oh. There's just a lack of authenticity in it. And so it's just like, oh, I just wonder why, you know, I'm so weird with people.

Whitney: 29:53

I have blah blah blah because you're not real with yourself. You're not vulnerable with you. Yo. How the fuck is anybody else gonna be vulnerable with you? You I'm sorry, Kobe.

Christian: 30:02

Need you to I gotta find the words you said again.

Whitney: 30:06

Oh, shit. Good luck.

Christian: 30:07

You said you are projecting the way you feel, and they're not even there.

Christopher: 30:12

No. Period. It's like that William Hwang situation. She rang. She rang.

Christopher: 30:16

He doing what the fuck you know. We're all embarrassed because we would.

Whitney: 30:21

I thought it was great.

Christian: 30:22

I thought it was ridiculous. But this is what this is what you've been

Whitney: 30:26

with. She she

Christopher: 30:28

was like, you know, wait, wait,

Whitney: 30:29

that's where she bangs. That's that's Rick Martin.

Christopher: 30:31

She bangs. She moves.

Whitney: 30:32

Oh, that's

Christian: 30:33

song he sang on there.

Christopher: 30:34

Oh, you know?

Whitney: 30:35

Yeah. I was like, because he had another song.

Christian: 30:36

He came out.

Christian: 30:37

Yeah. But that that was his audition. That's fair. Yeah. No.

Christian: 30:41

We Yeah. That Oh. Oh. Okay. When we're talking about trying to be vulnerable with God, the amount of

Whitney: 30:52

projection. Oh.

Speaker 4: 30:55

Oh, man.

Christian: 30:55

No wonder.

Speaker 4: 30:56

That is

Christopher: 30:57

gonna be in this week's message.

Speaker 4: 30:58

No wonder.

Christian: 31:00

Wow. We don't want to be vulnerable

Speaker 4: 31:03

with you.

Whitney: 31:03

Somebody. Right.

Christopher: 31:05

We a lot of

Christian: 31:06

We project all the

Whitney: 31:08

things. Girl.

Speaker 4: 31:09

Yes.

Christian: 31:10

Look. Okay. How I was thinking about this, like, in the car. There is I never felt like I was allowed to be vulnerable with God. Let me explain.

Whitney: 31:28

Go ahead. I got you.

Speaker 4: 31:29

Mhmm.

Christian: 31:30

There is God already knows everything. Right? That's the that's the that's the that's the way that the faith practices we grew up in operate. Omniscience. God knows it.

Christian: 31:40

Omniscience.

Christopher: 31:41

Omniscience. All the way. Brother is watching you.

Christian: 31:43

Mhmm. Well, we'll get there. I'm sorry. We'll get there.

Christopher: 31:46

That's how we weaponize as our missions.

Christian: 31:48

Yes. That's that part. Right? But he knows everything. That's the logic.

Christian: 31:51

Right? So there's no use in me trying to pretend that I am not doing, saying, feeling things that I am doing, saying, feeling. Right? There's no use. However

Speaker 4: 32:05

Mhmm.

Christian: 32:05

I'm only allowed to have in the faith practice and the way that I synthesized it. I was only allowed to feel one way about him knowing. That was shame.

Whitney: 32:17

Well

Speaker 4: 32:18

Goddamn.

Christian: 32:19

That was all I was allowed to feel. I couldn't feel seen. I couldn't feel known. I couldn't feel like God understood. I wasn't allowed to feel that.

Christian: 32:27

All I could feel Damn. Was shame.

Christopher: 32:30

Because we have made God to be so holy and so other Right. That we're supposed to have, and we're not. So that when we get in his presence, we are to feel shame because we are finally coming to the realization that we are not him.

Christian: 32:46

We are

Whitney: 32:46

to be a tyrant. A tyrant.

Christopher: 32:49

Right. And so we are convicted of our sin.

Christian: 32:52

Right. We are

Christopher: 32:53

And and and should be prompted to it's like, look. If I'm so ashamed, I'm not gonna ask God for help.

Whitney: 32:59

That's because that's what shame does. Shame hides.

Christopher: 33:01

Right. Right.

Christian: 33:02

I'm not but, like,

Speaker 4: 33:03

I'm gonna own

Whitney: 33:04

an ass.

Speaker 4: 33:04

I'm not

Whitney: 33:04

gonna be vulnerable when I'm shameful. You can't be full of both.

Christopher: 33:09

You can't be full of right?

Christian: 33:10

You can't. And that's the thing. Like, it's like, oh, God is so much better than me, but, no, that's not even what I learned. Gotcha. What I learned was that y'all thought things that I was doing, saying, thinking were wrong

Speaker 4: 33:26

Mhmm.

Christian: 33:26

And that you decided God thought that too. Exactly.

Whitney: 33:29

Because you projected your thoughts. I forgot you made a God in your image.

Christian: 33:34

God doesn't even need to be there. Right.

Christopher: 33:38

Right.

Christian: 33:39

He don't need to be there. I let you guilt trip me out of God. Right.

Whitney: 33:46

God you know what, sister?

Christopher: 33:48

Yeah.

Whitney: 33:48

Let that let that out. Let that out. That felt good. Yeah.

Christian: 33:51

I I was thinking about it in the car, and then when we was talking, I was like, that's it.

Whitney: 33:55

No. No. That's it. That's good ass.

Christian: 33:57

Because I I was like

Christopher: 33:59

cock blocked you from God. We're gonna bring that back, Carly.

Christian: 34:02

Now that's some merch.

Whitney: 34:04

That's listen. That's gonna be our running thing.

Speaker 4: 34:06

Don't let it cock

Whitney: 34:06

block you from a car.

Christian: 34:08

Like out of actual God.

Whitney: 34:10

No, for real. Not near out of the experience of God.

Christian: 34:13

We were talking about the the wizard. So everybody this we're recording this shortly after all of the things.

Whitney: 34:20

It's coming out shortly after.

Christian: 34:22

It's it's coming January. New one. Yeah. Oh, what? Wait.

Christian: 34:25

What?

Whitney: 34:26

No. No. Shortly after what?

Christian: 34:27

No. Like I was talking

Whitney: 34:28

about the the,

Speaker 4: 34:29

Wiki. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 34:31

Yeah. So we're anyway. So we we were to kinda talk I we glossed over some discussions of the Wiz, but the Wiz was a projection. He was an actual man.

Speaker 4: 34:40

Yes. But

Christian: 34:41

the person that everybody thought he was was a projection. He was Mhmm. He was creating.

Whitney: 34:46

He was literally just a man. He was just a man. He was a man with loud fire bells and whistles.

Christian: 34:53

Lots lots of lots of Smokey mirrors.

Whitney: 34:56

Lots of noises. Yeah. Lots of noises. That nigga was a clanging pot.

Christian: 35:00

Clanging cymbal.

Christopher: 35:01

Yeah. He was.

Christian: 35:01

In a in a tingling gong.

Speaker 4: 35:03

Ain't that how I go?

Christian: 35:04

Think so. Just noisy. But, like

Christopher: 35:07

Sounding brass are tingling.

Speaker 4: 35:08

So There

Christian: 35:08

you go.

Christopher: 35:08

Thanks. The king j.

Whitney: 35:09

Wow. We weren't I mean, we were a little close.

Christopher: 35:12

Yeah. You were. You were on a That was very close. I was just I was just saying it to let y'all know how close y'all were. Oh, thank you.

Christopher: 35:17

All the brass and shit.

Whitney: 35:19

Sounds. Cacophony.

Christopher: 35:20

Right. Cacophony. There you go.

Whitney: 35:23

What was that, Krishna?

Christian: 35:24

It was a cacophony.

Whitney: 35:29

You know what's funny? So sidebar. What

Christopher: 35:30

megahertz is that?

Whitney: 35:31

Sidebar. I had their child yesterday. We went and did a fun activity because, like, sometimes parents need a break. Auntie needs some time of her baby.

Christopher: 35:37

Oh. Yes.

Christian: 35:38

And Thank you.

Christopher: 35:39

We you welcome it.

Whitney: 35:40

I was driving and something happened, and I have, like, the stranger's processing noise. And so I was literally going why they sit in the back seat circles? I

Speaker 4: 35:51

was like, how was that

Whitney: 35:53

not even weird to her? And I was like, oh, because of who her parents are.

Christopher: 35:57

Yeah. No.

Whitney: 35:59

All the same. So yesterday

Christopher: 36:01

Oh, yeah.

Christian: 36:01

We're watching

Christopher: 36:02

We're silly all the time.

Christian: 36:03

We're watching some weird movie. I don't know what movie Chris has done.

Christopher: 36:07

Shooter. Anyway. Mark Wahlberg.

Christian: 36:09

I wanted to talk about that movie later. But, no. Not, like, in detail, but there there's parts of it that were useful.

Christopher: 36:16

Oh, okay.

Christian: 36:17

But, yeah. So we're watching the movie, and we y'all, we don't really watch, like, TV. We usually are watching YouTube and stuff. So Sydney's not used to commercials.

Speaker 4: 36:27

Mhmm.

Christian: 36:28

And so the the Burger King commercial came on.

Christopher: 36:32

Oh, yes.

Christian: 36:33

Starts singing it over and over, but, of course, she's singing it wrong. Yeah. It was so

Speaker 4: 36:38

I love

Christopher: 36:39

that I love, but I love

Christian: 36:40

is she singing? She's is she singing the the commercial?

Whitney: 36:44

She said it's catchy, first of all.

Christian: 36:46

And so she was running around the couch going, b CJ Bell. What how does I don't even

Speaker 4: 36:51

know how to

Christopher: 36:51

CJ, battery veins.

Christian: 36:54

Out of your way.

Speaker 4: 36:54

Did she Now she said

Whitney: 36:57

about her cousin.

Speaker 4: 36:58

I was

Christopher: 37:00

like, it's

Speaker 4: 37:01

b k s s s.

Christopher: 37:01

And she'd be like, it's big the first time, and then she slid back. CJ. CJ.

Speaker 4: 37:05

CJ. That's hilarious.

Christian: 37:05

I knew

Speaker 4: 37:06

it was happening. That is

Christopher: 37:09

where I was. Was so an imp commercial spot. I just would be

Speaker 4: 37:18

like, oh.

Christopher: 37:18

It

Christian: 37:18

was time for bed.

Christopher: 37:20

Yeah. And I mean, it is catchy, and she's very much me. Oh my god. Singing.

Christian: 37:24

Started singing.

Christopher: 37:26

Mel. Like, it's like it's terrible.

Christian: 37:29

Terrible commercial.

Christopher: 37:30

Gets in your fucking ears, and you leave

Speaker 4: 37:32

That's wild.

Christopher: 37:33

And you just sing it. And that's so I just churchify it, you know, to have fun with it. I'm just kicking it around because if it's gonna be there, I might as well fucking play with it.

Whitney: 37:41

Like, I have to not be there.

Christopher: 37:43

I got a cat with yarn.

Christian: 37:43

And you sounded like a cash register.

Christopher: 37:45

Yeah. Oh,

Whitney: 37:46

no. Oh, was that what I sounded like?

Christian: 37:47

I just made up with Yeah.

Whitney: 37:49

Yeah. Okay. Random sound. But exactly. Yeah.

Christopher: 37:52

So does that.

Whitney: 37:52

Full of weird her life is full of strange adults.

Christopher: 37:54

Right.

Christian: 37:55

Full of strange adults. Yeah. Not like the Who are not afraid to be strangers.

Whitney: 37:59

Kind. No. The Like, who are kind of oddly. They're odd we're all oddballs, and we're okay with that.

Christopher: 38:04

Right. Right. Right.

Christian: 38:05

Parents. Barely odd parents. That's us. There you go.

Christopher: 38:09

Oh, Jesus. That's hilarious.

Christian: 38:10

No. That was a sidebar. I don't know

Speaker 4: 38:12

that so much.

Christopher: 38:13

Alright. But just like you said, the vulnerability, the of it all in but in being vulnerable and because we're modeling a God who is initially Yeah. Vulnerable. It made me think of Forrest Gump. Oh.

Christopher: 38:28

Yeah. I know.

Whitney: 38:29

It's one of my favorites. Let's see where this goes. I'm excited.

Christopher: 38:32

Forrest Gump, for me, really highlights an aspect of the nature of God, especially with his relationship with Jenny. Mhmm.

Speaker 4: 38:42

When he

Christopher: 38:42

talks about he just he doesn't have the sense to understand that he looks like an idiot chasing after someone that doesn't want him in that way.

Speaker 4: 38:51

Gotcha.

Christopher: 38:52

And and just the the the the the level of gratuitousness in his emotional grand in in his emotional giving, being there for him for them, rescuing her from situations she didn't ask to be rescued from.

Whitney: 39:07

Ever.

Christopher: 39:08

Ever.

Whitney: 39:09

Until she did at the very end.

Speaker 4: 39:10

I think that's Right.

Christopher: 39:11

Right. Right. And she and and she was like he was always, I love you, Jennay. Like, he like he was like, this it is so clear to him why I'm why he's doing what he's

Speaker 4: 39:21

doing. Exactly.

Christopher: 39:23

So he's he's very much a simpleton in that regard.

Speaker 4: 39:27

Mhmm.

Christopher: 39:27

And then he says something that most some of the most profound thing at the end of it all. He was like, you know what? He was like, I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is. And then he go takes his ass out the house and puts his hands on the hip and

Christian: 39:42

Stand there and look up.

Christopher: 39:42

Because, like, he's at this point, he is legitimately disturbed and pissed. Yeah. He's like, look.

Speaker 4: 39:47

You probably got me.

Christopher: 39:48

She's like, you know what? I ain't fucking smart. But I you know what? What you've been through

Speaker 4: 39:53

Right.

Christopher: 39:53

Ain't what I'm trying to give you.

Whitney: 39:55

Right.

Christopher: 39:55

And I know what love is. And so while you upset at me for not being I know how to love you. Yeah. And then that's when Jen was like, you know what? I do love you for it.

Christopher: 40:05

And she, you know, gave him the business. Oh, and then, you know

Christian: 40:10

seen that entire movie in years. I always see the

Christopher: 40:13

But it's it's clear. It's that with someone else. It's my my favorite movie. Yeah. And so, like, I'm looking at that.

Whitney: 40:19

So what you're saying is we should give God the business?

Christopher: 40:22

I'm not saying that. Okay.

Christian: 40:24

Not like that.

Christopher: 40:25

It's not with us?

Whitney: 40:26

No. You said the business. I just

Christopher: 40:28

I'm sorry. I metaphor first. Metaphor for finally opening up to,

Whitney: 40:34

we should blossom in front of the Lord. Y'all don't worry about me. I'm alright.

Christopher: 40:41

See, you see? I'm alright. But but but yeah. So the the vulnerability of of of God and and how he continuously and relentlessly Pursues. Us.

Christopher: 40:52

Yeah. And relentlessly makes himself look like an idiot for wanting to be, in communion with us in varying ways and allowing himself to connect with us in ways that we may feel like he shouldn't. Yeah. You know? Especially with church people that feel like they can gatekeep the presence of God.

Christopher: 41:18

And so, yeah, they would very much be the first people to say, like, no. God ain't in that. God

Whitney: 41:23

no. No. I'll not.

Christopher: 41:24

Here. I met God here at the club. I met God here at such and such. Yeah. And there was another guy.

Christopher: 41:30

I forgot someone who was telling us of the story of somebody he knew that grew up in church, and they ended up he ended up being a a porn star.

Speaker 4: 41:38

Mhmm.

Christopher: 41:39

And he said he met his wife on set, and it was like something about the way they made love. He felt God in that moment.

Whitney: 41:47

Period.

Christopher: 41:47

And then he left the porn industry after that. But, like

Whitney: 41:50

And did she?

Christopher: 41:51

Yeah. Okay. They did I mean, they, you know, they they I'm

Speaker 4: 41:53

scared of no shame.

Whitney: 41:54

Listen. We were off on

Christopher: 41:55

And I we yeah. I'm I may be butchering up the story, but the general sense was is that he met God Mhmm. And his wife and his destiny in the most unlikely of places.

Whitney: 42:06

And likely They found love.

Christopher: 42:08

And they found love.

Whitney: 42:08

In a hopeless place.

Christopher: 42:10

In a hopeless place. So Hello. So so we have to you. So alright.

Whitney: 42:15

So Exactly where I was going. Thank you. I just didn't wanna sing again on the podcast today.

Christopher: 42:20

So so we if we're going to be, be godly and be loving, in that way, we have to shed off any perception of the uncomeliness that we have associated with what how God is how God carries himself. Yeah. Because he obviously carries himself a lot differently than what we have accustomed to or projected on him to be.

Whitney: 42:42

Which what this takes me back to, and pardon me if I'm, like, oversimplifying, but, like, does that also mean you can only know God in the present? Mhmm. Because the past is back there. The future is a projection. Right?

Whitney: 42:57

So, like, if if I'm truly gonna and just thinking about, like, people. Right? Let's say 2 people in a relationship. And and I'm I'm sitting across from Christian, so I'm just gonna talk about you. If I assume and sometimes I do.

Whitney: 43:09

They're like, oh, I know you. Right? But if I assume that in each moment, I know how you're gonna show up. Yeah. I know what you're gonna say.

Whitney: 43:17

Yeah. I know where how you're gonna respond. Why are you here?

Christian: 43:21

You don't need to be here.

Whitney: 43:22

Right? But if I'm present with you Right. And myself. Right? Because shit, do we always know exactly what

Speaker 4: 43:29

the fuck we're gonna do if we're not overly present? Right. Absolutely not. You

Whitney: 43:34

ever you you never shocked yourself?

Christopher: 43:35

Like Right.

Christian: 43:36

I shocked myself this week. So there you go.

Whitney: 43:38

Hello? And so, like, to really be present with someone is to be here now and open. And I think, like, to say, oh, yeah. I'm here now. We in the same room.

Whitney: 43:50

That's not presence, baby. No. If your mind is anywhere else It has been. Anywhere else, you're not present.

Christian: 43:56

Yeah.

Whitney: 43:56

Right? And so, like, having that relationship with God, God is always present with us. God is presence. God's love.

Christopher: 44:03

And it's it's interesting that you say that because it almost seems like that even though God is all present Mhmm. That in so many ways, it almost if he's going to be present, it somehow cancels or narrows his omniscience.

Whitney: 44:18

Say it louder.

Christopher: 44:19

To be present, like you said, like, we are needing to be present. Yeah.

Whitney: 44:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Whitney: 44:24

It's clicking. Go go.

Christopher: 44:25

Go go. So it's it's like yeah. Like, okay. Yeah. I know everything, but everything don't matter if I'm with you.

Whitney: 44:32

Period. Because we're here right now in this moment. And, actually, the future, does that matter? No. I don't give a shit about your past.

Speaker 4: 44:39

Right. Right? I'm right here. Shit about your past.

Whitney: 44:41

I'm right here with you right here right now.

Christopher: 44:44

And I have always and that's why it wouldn't mean it's that Jesus Christ is once you did Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever. Yeah. And so, like, it this is a real time revelation. I'm quoting, so bear with me.

Whitney: 44:55

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher: 44:56

But the idea that that Jesus Christ is constant and consistent throughout time and space means that he has the wherewithal to be present with us.

Whitney: 45:07

Yes. Yes. There's a thing here Osho talks about, but I'm a let you finish.

Christopher: 45:13

Go ahead.

Whitney: 45:13

Oh, okay. So, like, Osho talks about, like, Jesus and the cross. Mhmm.

Speaker 4: 45:17

And

Whitney: 45:17

how and, Lord, please, and let me butcher this. Can you bring my memory back together, Lord? Take a bubble bath. Sorry. That's sorry.

Christopher: 45:24

This is

Whitney: 45:25

Connie from Big Mouth. Anyhoo Mhmm. So the horizontal line represents time. Right? So that's, like, present to future or past to future.

Whitney: 45:33

But the he was like, you know, so many people exist. The idea that, like, most most people are not, quote, unquote, awakened because we exist just in this timeline. Mhmm. Right? But then there's this one point of the vertical where we can go deeper, we can go higher, and that intersects only at the present moment in the cross.

Whitney: 45:52

So if you're thinking about the cross Mhmm. Like, where those two lines come together, where you actually exist within time

Speaker 4: 45:58

Mhmm.

Whitney: 45:59

But you are experiencing the depth or the height of of the human experience

Christopher: 46:04

Right.

Whitney: 46:05

Is at the the point of the cross. And so, like, that's that's one of the ways he conceptualizes, like, the symbolism of Jesus dying in, like, in a chiastic manner.

Christopher: 46:12

Right.

Whitney: 46:13

And so Who? Chiastic means cross.

Christian: 46:15

Oh, okay.

Christopher: 46:16

Yeah.

Whitney: 46:19

Study our history one time. All of those words just stick. But but. That like that idea that, like, even Jesus was giving us that example that, like, yeah, yeah, this this is there's front to back. Right?

Whitney: 46:34

Like, you could be here. Right. But if you're anywhere else, if you're not in the center of that

Speaker 4: 46:38

Mhmm.

Whitney: 46:39

You you're not I mean, missing something. You're missing something. You're missing the ability to cross planes. Right? Like, you're existing only on plane 1 when there's a vertical plane that allows you to get outside of all of the temporal shit

Christopher: 46:54

Right.

Whitney: 46:54

And really a, b, and exist Mhmm. And not only see yourself for real Right. And not in the context of time, not worried about what's gonna happen in the future, not being ashamed about what happened in the past, but the same for others. Right?

Christopher: 47:08

Mhmm.

Whitney: 47:09

And, like, that's where the oneness of humanity happens is in the present.

Christopher: 47:14

Yeah. It it is. And it's funny that you mentioned it because I saw a funny video. This may not the way I'm butchering, it may not be funny to you, but there's a video that was out, like, I saw it, like, when I was,

Christian: 47:26

Doesn't matter. Keep going.

Christopher: 47:27

2, 3 days ago.

Speaker 4: 47:28

Mhmm.

Christopher: 47:29

And the title was, like, that one friend, that doesn't have empathy. Uh-huh. And this guy is on

Speaker 4: 47:35

the

Christopher: 47:35

phone. And only you see the one guy, he's the guy without the without the empathy, but the guy on the other phone is like, hey. You know, I'm going through this. You know, my mom, and such and such. She has a, you know, illness, and, you know, I need to work through this.

Christopher: 47:48

And and I, you know, call on for work. And the guy was like, yeah. But, like, you got bills to pay. Like, you know, like, you you can't just be you got you gotta find a way to to get it together. What are you doing for yourself?

Christopher: 47:58

Mhmm. He was like, yeah. But, like, my mom, you know, he she has a terminal illness, so I had to call off her work. And I'm just like, you don't think you you know, like, it your mom may die, but, like, but you still got them bills coming up. Sir.

Christopher: 48:10

Such and such and such. And, like, this is you know? And so it's it's a little bit of dark humor, but they're bringing up a point. It's like like, you have friends like these that that are not able to be present.

Speaker 4: 48:22

They care

Christopher: 48:23

for you, and they care about the overall issues that you're going through, but they go about it a different way. Yeah. And so it looks like they're not being present with you, and they're not giving you what you need in the moment.

Speaker 4: 48:35

Mhmm.

Christopher: 48:35

And it's like, yes. All of those things are true, but they're not right right now.

Whitney: 48:40

Yeah. They're not appropriate.

Christopher: 48:41

Not for yeah. Yeah. No.

Whitney: 48:43

That's not what this moment calls for.

Christopher: 48:44

It's not what this moment calls for. And so, you know, like, it's a you know, it may be not be an accurate title that you lack empathy. It may or may not be, but you definitely lack presence Absolutely. In the moment Mhmm. To be like, hey.

Christopher: 48:58

I'm going through it right now. And if you understood that, you may have a different approach to helping this man out

Speaker 4: 49:05

Mhmm.

Christopher: 49:06

As opposed to, hey. You know, let the doctors take care of your mom, and you need to get back to work. You know, especially crazy.

Whitney: 49:17

Like, like, I I'm even thinking about that because I'm like, he's

Christopher: 49:19

important? Your mom on these bills? And I was like, my mom.

Whitney: 49:21

My mom.

Christopher: 49:22

How they doing?

Christian: 49:22

And I'm

Whitney: 49:23

and I'm like, even if you're not I think the craziest thing about that example is that, like, you don't even gotta be in a prison to see how that's misplaced

Speaker 4: 49:30

because Yeah.

Whitney: 49:31

The time is finite. Right? And if your mom is, like, giving this example

Christopher: 49:34

turmoil in us. Right.

Christian: 49:35

Be there after she go.

Whitney: 49:37

Them bills are gonna be there for you to worry about after she's gone. Your time with her is finite. So even if you're looking into the future, you're like, oh, shit. The future is coming fast.

Speaker 4: 49:45

Mhmm.

Whitney: 49:45

To the present, and I should probably get in all the FaceTime with this woman who's about

Speaker 4: 49:50

to Right.

Whitney: 49:50

Juice out the roof, like, before I like Right. It it's just very your priorities. It's capitalism. I hate.

Christopher: 49:57

Right. But but that's a prime example to how that man's vulnerability at a moment got abused. Yeah. Disregard and ignored. And it was not handled well.

Christopher: 50:06

Yeah. So now no, that friend is not going to call you back.

Whitney: 50:09

Well and I think that's Next Here's the beautiful thing about that. Right? Like, even in like, when I say use discernment, but, like, you have to practice vulnerability, and that will weed out people. Right? Like, if if people are and not to say, oh, you like if they can't know if you everybody can handle your vulnerability.

Whitney: 50:27

You just cut them off. That's not listen. Y'all please use your noodles. But, like, the thing is is, like, you you have to know where to properly place people. People can still have value.

Whitney: 50:38

Right? Because, like, there there's something vulnerable about saying about this being offended without taking offense. Right?

Christian: 50:45

Like, hey. This not your this is obviously I can't trust you with this.

Whitney: 50:48

With this. Right. Right? It doesn't mean you are useless

Christian: 50:52

to me. When I need to find a new job, you know, we can talk. And if some point your feelings are gonna show up and you're not gonna be able to ignore them no more, I will be here to talk with you, but you're not ready. But also,

Whitney: 51:03

where in this conversation do we go, hey. That priority like, I hear what you're saying, and I'm not saying that money isn't important. But right now, I don't like, that doesn't align with my priorities. My priority is my mother.

Christian: 51:15

Yeah. Mhmm.

Whitney: 51:16

Right? Like, that's that's also a vulnerability to say, hey.

Christopher: 51:19

Right.

Whitney: 51:19

In this conversation, our priorities are not aligned.

Christopher: 51:22

Yeah.

Whitney: 51:23

Yeah. And and you can get because I don't think everybody always recognizes. Sometimes people are just trying to help the only way they know how.

Christopher: 51:29

Right.

Whitney: 51:29

And if you tell them that's not the priority, I need this switch to be made. Some people, if you let them, will make a switch. We'll make

Christopher: 51:37

a switch.

Christian: 51:37

They'll move around.

Whitney: 51:38

They will some people will rise to meet you if given the opportunity. Mhmm. Some people will not.

Christian: 51:43

And I mean and this is something that I discernment. That I I've you know, I I see people do stuff like this, but it's in certain capacity. So, like, with husbands and wives, this is why I've seen it. I'm sure other people do it. Mhmm.

Christian: 51:56

Where, you know, somebody comes home, typically a woman, and is, like, come talking about what happened during her day, and the husband goes, hey. Do you want to try to find a solution, or do you just wanna, like Mhmm. Do you just wanna bitch and moan? And it's like, bitch and moan today, bitch. I can't believe he did that.

Whitney: 52:13

Right? Like, come with that nigga.

Christian: 52:14

Come with the energy requested. That part. But I've done the same things with, like, not the same thing, but similar things with friends who have been, like, struggling.

Speaker 4: 52:25

Mhmm.

Christian: 52:25

I asked them

Whitney: 52:26

Are we venting?

Christian: 52:28

It's like, hey. Do you want to reminisce, or do you need a distraction? Yeah. I can help with both. Just let me know which.

Christian: 52:36

Right. And if they say distraction, I got memes on deck. You know?

Whitney: 52:41

And she do.

Christian: 52:42

I'd I'd be having memes on there. Mhmm. It's like, do you need a meme? Do you need to hear something stupid? You wanna hear dumb story about my toddler?

Christian: 52:48

I have a thousand.

Whitney: 52:49

I would like to talk about a book ad nauseam.

Christian: 52:51

You want you want me to tell you about the worst book I read last year?

Whitney: 52:54

I watched you Y'all. About an hour?

Christian: 52:56

I am rich.

Whitney: 52:57

Listen to this, say no. I heard about it. Say no. Tell her to pick a different book. Tell her to

Christian: 53:02

pick a second. Lube, Nyla? That's all you need

Speaker 4: 53:04

to know.

Whitney: 53:04

Oh, girl. I can't tell her to pick the 2nd worst book. Not this one. Yeah. Not this.

Whitney: 53:09

We've talked about this book on this podcast. We have talked bad this fucking book is.

Christian: 53:13

The second worst book, boy. He don't like you. Stop dating him.

Speaker 4: 53:19

Yeah.

Whitney: 53:19

Break up with him. That's big break up with him energy.

Christian: 53:21

Stay broke up with him. It's a second chance romance. Those are hard to get right. Those are so hard to

Christopher: 53:25

They're very hard

Speaker 4: 53:25

to get.

Whitney: 53:26

Like, in books or

Christian: 53:26

in real life.

Christopher: 53:27

In real life.

Christian: 53:28

Both of them. Yes.

Christopher: 53:29

I tried to attempt it twice. I was still

Christian: 53:31

I've only did it once.

Whitney: 53:32

I've only done it once, and it did. Yeah. It didn't go.

Christian: 53:34

It didn't.

Whitney: 53:35

That shit didn't curl.

Christian: 53:36

It it

Whitney: 53:37

coulda. It wasn't my fault.

Christopher: 53:38

Yeah.

Christian: 53:39

It's a lot of great. I grew.

Christopher: 53:40

I I deal with the idea what I did.

Christian: 53:42

No. I am not. What I

Christopher: 53:44

was told I wanted to be for that.

Christian: 53:45

And it didn't work. Oh, same. But it didn't work. No. Oh, not sad.

Christian: 53:50

Wait. Was Rance

Speaker 4: 53:52

in there?

Christopher: 53:52

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 53:53

He might be. Is that

Whitney: 53:54

a little Rance Allen in there?

Christopher: 53:55

Little Rance.

Christian: 53:56

Didn't work. I don't remember who sings this song.

Whitney: 53:58

Dressing is absurd. Did you say Rance dressing? Do not speak ill of the dead in such a fashion. This nigga called this man.

Christopher: 54:04

Makes everything better. I didn't I referenced

Speaker 4: 54:07

his name.

Christopher: 54:08

Ranch Go ahead. Man.

Speaker 4: 54:10

A little ranch on some shit?

Whitney: 54:11

You did.

Christopher: 54:11

That shit was funny.

Whitney: 54:13

Ranch. Okay. Y'all this is this is for the all the churches

Christian: 54:15

here. Now then

Whitney: 54:16

if y'all don't know who Rance Allen is, go look

Speaker 4: 54:19

him up. Oh. Oh. Oh. Shut up.

Speaker 4: 54:21

It's the show notes. That's my

Christopher: 54:23

became a meme Natasha. That man was a meme before it was a meme.

Speaker 4: 54:27

Oh, no.

Whitney: 54:29

You go hey. Listen. You gotta watch a video of him.

Christopher: 54:31

He has to. He has to know that he was doing that shit and trolling niggas in the spirit.

Christian: 54:38

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 4: 54:38

He had to have known.

Whitney: 54:39

Yeah. Yeah. Rest in pieces. Because that I I love some rants.

Christopher: 54:45

Right.

Speaker 4: 54:45

Love that. Name Jesus.

Christian: 54:49

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Christian: 54:50

Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:51

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:52

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:52

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:52

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:52

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:53

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:53

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:53

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:54

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4: 54:54

Oh

Christopher: 54:59

and It was it's right there. It's not even like No.

Whitney: 55:02

That was a good one. Light work. You don't listen. I'm gonna say this.

Christian: 55:05

Light work. Like all of the ones you do. No. The light work is usually the best. But that one?

Christian: 55:10

The light works. Koala tea.

Whitney: 55:12

Yeah. Co there were koala bears involved.

Christian: 55:15

Yeah. Koala tea.

Christopher: 55:16

Koala tea.

Christian: 55:17

Your light work's usually your best work.

Whitney: 55:18

Oh my goodness. So light hand. Light

Christopher: 55:20

hand. Hair.

Whitney: 55:20

Yeah. Yeah. That's good shit. Oh, rants

Speaker 4: 55:23

and dresses.

Christian: 55:23

We talking about?

Christopher: 55:24

It's low hanging.

Christian: 55:25

I don't know. But, yeah,

Whitney: 55:26

on stage, you'll need to take that one. Give us credit, Kev. He ain't gonna see it.

Speaker 4: 55:29

Yeah. Hang on.

Whitney: 55:31

You know what? He will. Let me

Christopher: 55:32

let me be prepared.

Speaker 4: 55:33

You send it to him?

Christopher: 55:34

Talk about it. You will look. We you still gotta meet Tony Baker. So

Whitney: 55:37

yeah. Woah.

Christian: 55:38

That's why I was watching

Whitney: 55:39

this man do a tour of his house because, you know, he getting his house remodeled.

Christopher: 55:41

Oh, yeah.

Whitney: 55:42

And then I said to myself, I said, no. I'm really a gay. I can't. Like, he got this tub. Y'all know Tony Baker tall?

Speaker 4: 55:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: 55:48

He got this tub. He's like

Christian: 55:49

Tall man's tub? Yes. And he, like,

Whitney: 55:51

laid down and pointed his toes. Oh. And I was like, now I should I become Tony Baker's girlfriend just so I can get in that tub? And I said, that's a lot of effort. I was like, Whitney, you can stick You're

Christian: 56:03

you're the type of person that you could become friends with Tony Baker

Whitney: 56:06

and get

Christian: 56:07

him to get in your

Whitney: 56:07

I could, but but I have a tub and my feet go straight out. And so I was like, well, then you don't have a need to do that. But also, I just you know? Mhmm. Every day I become gayer and gayer.

Whitney: 56:19

And

Christopher: 56:19

That's the truth.

Whitney: 56:20

You know? Well Beautiful. You know, it's it's truth and part probably partially environmental because I'm I was already there. And then every day, it's like, oh.

Christopher: 56:29

Tell my men be mening.

Whitney: 56:30

It's ghetto out there. I hate this for you. You. God bless you. Babies.

Christopher: 56:35

Sis hets.

Whitney: 56:36

Oh my god. Sis hets. No. You ain't gotta be sis. They don't have to.

Whitney: 56:40

I just I don't anybody that really has to, like, deal with Y chromosomes. And I'm not saying all of the Y chromosomes because you got one and he could.

Christopher: 56:49

Yeah, he could.

Christian: 56:50

He could. Much of

Christopher: 56:51

a match. You you did.

Christian: 56:52

You know, but that.

Speaker 4: 56:53

Yeah. It's like, like, here's

Whitney: 56:56

the thing. Not even just the wise, because sometimes the double x's be tripping too. But, like, the the dynamic between them

Christian: 57:03

Mhmm. It it is in

Christopher: 57:05

It is an interesting

Christian: 57:06

overly antagonistic.

Speaker 4: 57:07

I don't

Whitney: 57:07

like it. It needs more vulnerability.

Christopher: 57:09

Level of societal conditioning than

Christian: 57:11

it is.

Speaker 4: 57:11

Oh, absolutely.

Whitney: 57:12

Oh. A 1000%. A 1000%. It's not inherent. It's not here.

Whitney: 57:15

It's the state of affairs, and I don't wanna be in that kind of I don't care. Affair.

Christopher: 57:19

Yeah. No. That's true.

Speaker 4: 57:20

So and also too many new niggas.

Whitney: 57:22

Wanna say, am I big grown ripe falling off the tree age? Yeah. I'm not here to teach no grown human

Speaker 4: 57:30

Mhmm.

Whitney: 57:31

Man, woman, non binary, pal. Okay? How To human? To human. Like, I'm not here to teach you what an emotion is and what the purpose is and what you should be doing with that.

Whitney: 57:44

Like, nigga.

Christian: 57:45

No. There's No.

Christopher: 57:45

That's that's true.

Christian: 57:46

Me and Chris are, like, going through we are growing up together. Here he

Speaker 4: 57:51

is.

Christian: 57:51

And we are, like, learning together. That's cute. Oh, now with that? No. No.

Christian: 57:55

No. But on purpose?

Whitney: 57:57

Yeah. Right? Like, it

Christopher: 57:58

We both wanna be better. Yeah. Okay. Alright. So, yeah, we both wanna be better.

Christian: 58:03

Yeah. Right? Like, on purpose, intentionally

Speaker 4: 58:06

Mhmm.

Christian: 58:07

But together, though.

Whitney: 58:08

You know?

Christian: 58:09

Right? Not like I'm Chris' mommy. Absolutely not.

Whitney: 58:13

No. And I don't wanna be nobody's mommy. And I'm already kinda naturally maternal and a little nurture a little mature. I'm quite nurturing.

Christian: 58:19

You have a nurturing spirit. Yeah.

Whitney: 58:21

You know what I'm saying? And so, like but to protect my own energies, like, you can't be so deeply because I've been there, baby. You can't be so deeply in me Mhmm. That I turn into your mama because guess what?

Christopher: 58:32

As a

Whitney: 58:33

grown up, I'm not attracted to children.

Christopher: 58:35

Love. Love.

Whitney: 58:36

And so Love.

Christopher: 58:38

Yeah. I'm a say something. It's like this what the other conversation begins.

Whitney: 58:41

Bless. You. Yeah. No. No.

Whitney: 58:44

I'm not. And so, like, there's no way that relationship can survive like that if I gotta be your parent. Now if we're walking partners side by side and we're doing shit and not to say, like, you gotta be perfect or you need to be exactly where I am, but I think there needs to be a balance

Christopher: 58:55

Yeah.

Whitney: 58:55

Love of shit. Right? And that's Right.

Speaker 4: 58:57

And that's

Christopher: 58:57

and that's and that's which is which is, like you say, which is why, you know, why me and Christian are together because I think a lot of the times and I had this conversation with other men, on a on a on another day. And I was like, we have equated femininity to childhood. Mhmm. And so, in other words, we have conceptualized

Christian: 59:17

Correct. It's called intrinsic.

Christopher: 59:18

Childlike aspects Yeah. Of the human to femininity.

Speaker 4: 59:22

Mhmm.

Christopher: 59:22

And I was like, look, I don't want, you know, my woman to to be

Whitney: 59:29

Evantalize?

Speaker 4: 59:30

Evantalize. A child?

Christopher: 59:32

A child. So it was like, you know, we we think of, you know, women you know, think of women as, unnecessarily dumb, but not as intelligent.

Whitney: 59:40

Which is crazy.

Christopher: 59:41

Emotionally unregulated.

Speaker 4: 59:42

The most

Whitney: 59:42

From the niggas that get sick.

Speaker 4: 59:44

Massaging. Massive. The massaging. Wow.

Christian: 59:48

Take I have ever I

Christopher: 59:49

we we we I made up a word for it.

Whitney: 59:51

No. I I would support your work.

Christopher: 59:53

Yeah. It's like we do think of them in in those ways, but we don't think of it that way because we're so concerned with defining our masculinity as not feminine.

Whitney: 01:00:03

Which is crazy because we all have we all need a balance of masculine and feminine energy.

Speaker 4: 01:00:08

That is

Whitney: 01:00:08

that is how no. It means shit.

Christopher: 01:00:10

It means

Whitney: 01:00:11

It's not in the ether.

Christian: 01:00:12

No. I mean, like, the I

Christopher: 01:00:13

Right. Okay.

Whitney: 01:00:14

But it's not what people define it as.

Christian: 01:00:16

What I'm saying. Right. Right. I actually attributes.

Christopher: 01:00:18

Right.

Speaker 4: 01:00:18

No. It's like just being able

Christian: 01:00:20

to talk about your feelings as feminine. Fuck that.

Whitney: 01:00:22

No. Right.

Christian: 01:00:23

Fuck that.

Whitney: 01:00:23

Taking action is a masculine attribute. Right? Mhmm. Allowing without resistance can be a feminine. And when I say resistance, I don't mean, like, being complacent.

Whitney: 01:00:33

I mean, just, like, existing, being, allowing, you know, letting people do for you, being seen. That those are feminine attributes. We all need them. Boom. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:00:44

Yeah. We all need them.

Christian: 01:00:45

They don't Like, you

Whitney: 01:00:46

over here worried about appearances and what the fuck. Right.

Christopher: 01:00:49

It's a shame. And so and so yeah. Like, so when I you know, when stupid men ought to be courageous or protect us, like, I know women who are courageous. I know women who are look. So this is this

Christian: 01:00:58

is what I'm talking about. Come out of your stomach and all your cuda. That is courageous.

Christopher: 01:01:04

Know. I know. I know strong women. Yeah.

Christian: 01:01:06

Don't be blacking in America doing that shit.

Speaker 4: 01:01:08

Shit. Come on, man.

Christopher: 01:01:10

So, you you know, like you said, the way we think about masculinity, especially when it comes to vulnerability

Whitney: 01:01:16

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:01:17

It's it's fucked up.

Whitney: 01:01:18

Yeah. It's not. Because I think that's the thing. The idea that your masculinity cannot be vulnerable or it is no longer masculinity.

Christian: 01:01:25

That's ridiculous.

Whitney: 01:01:26

That's crazy. Everything could be vulnerable. Everything got

Christopher: 01:01:30

holes. Vulnerable. Like

Christian: 01:01:31

And and feel like you make yourself more vulnerable by projecting invulnerability.

Whitney: 01:01:37

Agreed.

Christian: 01:01:37

Because all you're do like, I don't feel anything. All you're doing is making it so that all of your feelings are stoveed up inside you. Right? So instead of having support so that you can, like, process and move through things, you are stagnant. Yeah.

Christian: 01:01:56

Not in a present way, but in a I live in the past all the time type of way.

Christopher: 01:02:01

Mhmm. Right.

Christian: 01:02:01

Right? That's the that's not that's not courageous.

Whitney: 01:02:04

It's not. And I think that's the thing. That's not courageous. And I think, like, also not truly being yourself, not being vulnerable enough even with yourself is not courageous. Not exploring all the facets of who you are because of the fear of being labeled as non feminine or non masculine.

Christopher: 01:02:20

Right. None of

Whitney: 01:02:21

that shit's courageous. Like, that's that's all bullshit and party

Christian: 01:02:26

and mostly bullshit. Mostly bullshit.

Christopher: 01:02:28

Mostly bullshit.

Whitney: 01:02:28

Like, you hella uncomfortable. And, like, I just think like, to be honest, I think we should do more shit that we're scared of. There is nothing that, like, will perpetuate or, like, birth, I think, vulnerability in you than just doing shit you scared of. Mhmm.

Speaker 4: 01:02:43

Matter of

Whitney: 01:02:43

fact, can I tell the story that I just told y'all about about my niece?

Speaker 4: 01:02:45

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:02:46

Okay. So yesterday, we went me and my sister, who is clearly one of Sydney's favorite people, because I'm just the sister. I'm I'm not your whole ass, Amy. I'm just the sister.

Christopher: 01:02:57

Oh, she

Whitney: 01:02:58

She Heavy with Heavy with my sister, Haley. But we took a took Sid to an event, and this event happened to have, like, some escalators. So you already know. Sid is 3. And, like, there was a moment where, like, Sid is crying because she's terrified of these escalators.

Whitney: 01:03:20

Right? And so we did that. One of my favorite things, and I've said this before, one of my favorite things to do with toddlers is to, like, really walk them through their emotions because, like, they're new to this shit. And it's so exciting. There's, like, there's less resistance because it's like, oh, you're a trusted adult.

Whitney: 01:03:32

Right? Yeah. And so I'm like, oh, let me do my trusted adult duty. Mhmm. And so, like, I literally I I squat down with y'all, all 6 foot of me.

Christian: 01:03:40

Bless you. Mostly legs

Whitney: 01:03:41

because I believe in getting eye level.

Christian: 01:03:42

I got the bend. I can't squat, but bless you.

Whitney: 01:03:45

And listen, I do my best. Listen, I had to squat a couple of times yesterday. One time I just put out my hand for Hailey to help me get up. So you're waving on the street. Hey.

Christian: 01:03:52

Hey, help me out. Hey.

Whitney: 01:03:53

There was like, oh, my God. And I was like, hey.

Christian: 01:03:55

Oh, your God. You want to go home?

Whitney: 01:03:57

No, babe. It was it was funny. But and so, like, I literally I was like, Sid, like, what's going on? I'm scared. Okay.

Whitney: 01:04:05

I hear that. I hear that you're scared. It's okay to be scared, but guess what? We can do things that we're scared of.

Speaker 4: 01:04:12

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:04:12

Mhmm. We can absolutely do things that we're scared of.

Christopher: 01:04:15

Right.

Whitney: 01:04:15

So and I was like, you know, and it once you start it, you might find that maybe it's not as scary as you thought it was. It also might be as scary as you thought it was, but you will get through it. I've done this before. I'm telling you, I think you can do this. Can we try?

Whitney: 01:04:32

Tears at her eyes. Yes. Okay. Right? And so we get on.

Whitney: 01:04:36

We do our whole countdown. I'm on one side. Haley's on the other. And we, like, big step on. And so we're probably about, like, a quarter of the way up.

Whitney: 01:04:43

It's it's a pretty big escalator. So a quarter of the way up, and I'm, like, checking it. How are you feeling? I'm not scared anymore.

Christopher: 01:04:49

Right.

Whitney: 01:04:50

I love that. So what do you feel instead? This is fun. Now imagine if this child and it's funny because as I was literally having the conversation, I ain't gonna hold y'all. This was me having a conversation with my inner child.

Whitney: 01:05:03

So fun fact, I jumped

Speaker 4: 01:05:04

out of

Whitney: 01:05:05

a plane at the end of last year.

Speaker 4: 01:05:06

What?

Christopher: 01:05:07

That's nice. Know.

Whitney: 01:05:08

You didn't know that?

Speaker 4: 01:05:08

No. Yeah. He he don't he don't he

Christian: 01:05:10

don't be on the socials. Oh, my bad. You text me. That's the only reason

Whitney: 01:05:13

I did because I I

Christopher: 01:05:14

I have my love relationship with social, so I miss

Christian: 01:05:17

I mean, I appreciate it. That's I sure did.

Christopher: 01:05:19

Folks with a heavy, and then I back away a lot.

Whitney: 01:05:21

No. That's that's actually fair.

Christian: 01:05:23

Got straight on the Internet when you told me where you were. It was like, how far is it? Okay.

Whitney: 01:05:26

How did you not that's I didn't tell you where I was.

Christian: 01:05:28

Yes. You did. You sent me a picture. You sent me a picture of the wall, and I

Whitney: 01:05:32

found out where

Christian: 01:05:33

your face was.

Whitney: 01:05:33

Wow. Girl, shit is like, yo, Christian Christian is one of the best investigators I've ever met, and I'm pretty fucking solid. Mhmm. Christian, however, like, listen. I don't ever have to look shit up on you ever.

Whitney: 01:05:43

Did she

Christopher: 01:05:44

get it

Whitney: 01:05:44

from her? Give Christian somebody's name or somebody one thing, and she's

Christian: 01:05:47

I have a keyboard

Christopher: 01:05:49

with me. It. Yeah. And she get it from my mama because the way she looked me up

Whitney: 01:05:52

And she

Christopher: 01:05:53

before she

Whitney: 01:05:53

flew up

Christopher: 01:05:53

to Chicago

Whitney: 01:05:54

Oh, absolutely.

Christopher: 01:05:55

To see me.

Whitney: 01:05:56

But Listen.

Christian: 01:05:57

Look. My mama was like she's like, put me up. I'll because so we're gonna take one detour. We're coming back to the escalator. I'm like, oh, forget.

Christian: 01:06:05

So before my mom knew Chris before we got together because we went to college together. We didn't get together until

Whitney: 01:06:12

And, like, same friend group

Christian: 01:06:13

conversation. Friend group. And so she had met him once before. So she she'd seen his face. She knew who he was, and she remembered a few details, which is weird.

Christian: 01:06:20

My mama don't remember shit. We love you, mama, but you really don't. Until it matters. Until it that's how I know it matters. Uh-huh.

Christian: 01:06:29

If she remembers, it matters. And so my previous boyfriend, she I met on the Internet, which she was extremely dubious about, but she didn't show it. But she looked up everything about him and his parents.

Whitney: 01:06:45

And his parents. I remember that she

Christian: 01:06:47

could find online and I found it years later. She had printed it out. There was like a doc.

Whitney: 01:06:51

Wait a minute.

Speaker 4: 01:06:53

I know what that was.

Christopher: 01:06:54

I know what

Speaker 4: 01:06:54

you see. I know.

Christian: 01:06:55

This election of printed out paper. This is a big your mom. This was, like, 2,000 and would have been, like, 2006, 2007. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 01:07:03

She had printed out papers that she kept with, like, where they lived and how much the house was worth and how many tickets he had gotten.

Whitney: 01:07:10

My kind of shit. Man, she go look at your property taxes.

Speaker 4: 01:07:13

She,

Christian: 01:07:14

well, she had printed out some other stuff too.

Speaker 4: 01:07:17

I don't

Christian: 01:07:17

remember what all she had printed out, but she did something similar with Chris, and I asked because I already knew she did it. I was like, did you look Chris up? She was like, yeah. He got a couple speed tickets. Ain't nothing bad.

Speaker 4: 01:07:26

And I was like, you really looked him up? And she

Christian: 01:07:28

was like, of course I did. You're going to Chicago.

Speaker 4: 01:07:32

Curious.

Christian: 01:07:34

So that's where I got it from.

Whitney: 01:07:35

That's where she gets it from.

Christopher: 01:07:36

She gets it from.

Speaker 4: 01:07:37

That's amazing.

Christopher: 01:07:38

And the way she remembered me

Christian: 01:07:40

Oh, yeah. She did.

Christopher: 01:07:41

And she was like, oh,

Speaker 4: 01:07:42

the one from Cashback going live with his grandma. I was like, you met him once.

Christopher: 01:07:46

She said, but he came to see you.

Christian: 01:07:48

That that was. Well, look, we could do an episode with

Christopher: 01:07:51

the one other niggas one coming to see her.

Christian: 01:07:54

He came.

Speaker 4: 01:07:54

That was

Christian: 01:07:54

in a hopsicle. No, that was when I was right after his surgery. So you're.

Whitney: 01:07:58

Oh, when you were back at the room? Yeah.

Christian: 01:08:00

When I had come back, he was bringing me my jeans back. Yes. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:08:04

What's the funnest story over here?

Christian: 01:08:05

That is

Whitney: 01:08:05

a funny and wholesome story.

Christian: 01:08:06

Don't It is very wholesome. Don't think too hard about it.

Whitney: 01:08:09

These Negroes.

Christian: 01:08:09

It's so fucking wholesome.

Whitney: 01:08:12

But but yes. So Christian Jumped

Christian: 01:08:13

out of a plane.

Whitney: 01:08:14

Ultimate investigator and how she knew where I was. That's crazy. But no. So I jumped out of a plane, which was a surprise to me that day. A friend gifted me with this jump on her birthday.

Whitney: 01:08:25

And I knew I wanted to do it, so, like, I ain't have a whole lot of resistance. Girl. Happy belated bee. But, like, I, a, what I will say is my relationship with fear changed after that day because it changed that day in that present moment. And so in talking like, so I've been really ref doing a lot of reflecting in the last, what, 2 weeks.

Whitney: 01:08:48

Yeah. Because it was only, like, 2 weeks ago.

Christopher: 01:08:50

Oh, okay. I had no idea.

Speaker 4: 01:08:52

But, yeah,

Whitney: 01:08:54

I've been doing a lot of reflecting on, like, how it's changed and, like, what is different now. And so that was, like, one of the things is I'm talking to Sydney about, like, we move scared.

Christian: 01:09:05

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:09:05

And I'm like, I do I say that all the time. Like, I do everything scared. I'm so scared of everything. And people was like, why?

Speaker 4: 01:09:08

You're so bold. You're so bi.

Whitney: 01:09:10

You're so courageous. And I'm like, no. I'm not.

Speaker 4: 01:09:12

I am scared shitless.

Whitney: 01:09:14

All the fucking time. I just do it anyway.

Christopher: 01:09:17

Right.

Whitney: 01:09:18

And but, like, there's a certain what changed I think the biggest thing that changed for me is that I recognized during the whole process leading up to the jump, I didn't have resistance.

Christopher: 01:09:29

Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:09:30

And I learned what fear without resistance could look like. And so I often reach that point at the point of impact. Right? Mhmm. And so, like, normally, let's say this is a regular shit.

Whitney: 01:09:40

Right? No lesson included. It would be like, oh, okay. We're jumping out of the plane. We're at the edge.

Whitney: 01:09:45

I guess I better let go now because this man's about to tumble us over. Right? And that's when I would release, but I would be, like, holding and grasping until that point and, like, anxious and da da da da. None of that. I was like, our other friend was there, and she she was not jumping.

Speaker 4: 01:09:59

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:09:59

And she

Whitney: 01:10:00

was just like, I'm a take the pictures. A she's like, I feel like I could do it at some point in your life, not right now. And I was like, heard. Okay. Cool.

Whitney: 01:10:08

But she was just like, how are you feeling? You nervous? And I was like, girl, I'm scared, and I'm so excited.

Christopher: 01:10:13

And that's it.

Christian: 01:10:13

Yeah. But

Whitney: 01:10:14

the scared wasn't like a, oh, no. Like, we like, the whole time, I was just like, well, it's happening. Yeah. We in the class. I don't have on no jumpsuit.

Whitney: 01:10:20

I'm just taking the lesson. Mhmm. Me. It's happening.

Christopher: 01:10:23

It's happening.

Whitney: 01:10:24

Shit. Okay. Putting on the jumpsuit. It's happening.

Christopher: 01:10:27

Switch me.

Whitney: 01:10:28

Can I change it? I heard y'all got a pair of spare shoes back there. I wore my really nice New Balance 90 sixties. Can I get a because I don't wanna put these in the grass? They're pink.

Whitney: 01:10:38

They're a beautiful colorway. If they was limited too. So if you ain't got them, you didn't get them. But I was just like, y'all got it. So they brought me these 2 tight I I jumped in shoes.

Whitney: 01:10:47

They were one size too small. Mhmm.

Christian: 01:10:49

You wouldn't run-in a race.

Whitney: 01:10:50

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. My feet was dangling. I didn't even notice until I had to walk back. You know?

Whitney: 01:10:57

But, like so, like, this whole time this whole time, I'm just like, it's happening. Yeah. It's happening. Am I scared? Yep.

Whitney: 01:11:03

But it's happening. I don't have to be resistant. Mhmm. And so, like, in talking Sid through this moment, I'm like, you're having resistance. I see it.

Whitney: 01:11:12

Mhmm. What you need to know is that you can still do it scared. And there will be so many more things that come in your life, little Sydney, little Whitney, that you're gonna be scared of, but you're gonna do them anyway. It's happening. It's happening.

Whitney: 01:11:27

And so, like, just that moment of and then, a, watching her be vulnerable Yeah. And do it anyway. And just the amount of like, that is such a huge trust

Speaker 4: 01:11:37

Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:11:37

For a toddler who will absolutely fall out. Because my baby is precious, but she will fall out.

Christopher: 01:11:43

Yeah. She will.

Whitney: 01:11:43

She will fall out.

Christopher: 01:11:44

Oh, man.

Whitney: 01:11:45

But for her to not fall out

Christian: 01:11:47

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:11:47

Like, she I saw her shift, and I was like, oh, she trusts

Christian: 01:11:52

me. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:11:53

She doesn't remember my name at the time.

Christian: 01:11:55

But she trusts

Whitney: 01:11:56

crazy because I've been in your life since your life. But

Christian: 01:11:58

she Right.

Whitney: 01:11:59

She trusts me. And I was like, yo. This is vulnerability at its finest.

Christopher: 01:12:05

It is.

Whitney: 01:12:06

And what's crazy is as children, we practice it so much. And then there comes this point where we get out of practice. And the person that we often end up struggling being the most vulnerable with is ourselves because it is also the person that we have the most difficulty trusting.

Christopher: 01:12:22

Yeah. We we we do. And, it just brought me up to the I

Whitney: 01:12:27

don't know if that makes sense y'all.

Speaker 4: 01:12:29

It did. Okay. It did.

Christopher: 01:12:30

It did. I'm just taking a moment to to take it all in because a lot of things came up in that moment. Last night, I had a situation where I just I was in the shower 2, 3 in the morning, getting ready for bed. And Crazy. I know.

Christian: 01:12:51

Isn't it?

Christopher: 01:12:51

That's my routine. Oh, I was up. And then well, I had been working the shade, and I was like, I can't touch the bed

Whitney: 01:12:57

That is real.

Christopher: 01:12:58

Without taking a shower. So I did that, and I just felt like I just need to sing. And, you know, I don't think she heard she was asleep, so I

Speaker 4: 01:13:08

felt like

Christopher: 01:13:08

Tell her not, though. Though. Yeah. I know nothing. Mhmm.

Christian: 01:13:10

I didn't know what

Christopher: 01:13:10

to do. Yeah. I was some good old hymn that I that I knew. It was like, you know, I need thee every hour.

Speaker 4: 01:13:16

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:13:16

And every once in a while, I, you know, play with him all the rest and stuff like that. And then it just seemed like every moment, the moments that I release those whatever energy I had, I didn't know I needed to sing until I started

Speaker 4: 01:13:29

singing.

Christian: 01:13:29

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:13:30

And the thought came to my mind that helped me, navigate my current season of thinking about John the Baptist and how he described himself as a voice crying in the wilderness, prepare you to wear the Lord. And I hadn't thought about it in the way that I needed to in the moment.

Speaker 4: 01:13:56

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:13:56

And then and just how he described himself that just really gave insight into how vulnerable that is.

Speaker 4: 01:14:04

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:14:05

That you are a voice crying in the wilderness. That means you're in solitude. That means no one is hearing you. So there's the loneliness of it all, the aimlessness of it all, the pointlessness of it all. But then there's the realness relentlessness

Christian: 01:14:23

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:14:23

Of it all, that he is constantly crying

Speaker 4: 01:14:28

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:14:28

Whether or not people are there or not, whether people hear, whether there will be a result from that or not. Yeah. But he's doing that. And in so many ways, that gave me strength for my own current vulnerability because it does feel like at times, in moments, I get, you know, be with myself, that what I'm doing currently is insignificant. Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:14:54

That what I'm doing currently, because no one is showing up or nobody is is doing this or that or responding the way I think needs to be responded so that I can know that this is the right path. I have to be confident

Whitney: 01:15:10

You have to validate yourself.

Christopher: 01:15:11

The best the the the best path Yeah. That this is the path that I'm supposed to be on. And it reminded me even as a singer, I was like, you know what, god? I have you've called me to this, and I have not come back to you, about what to do with this. It's like, oh, well, I got my call from God.

Christopher: 01:15:32

Alright. I'm a go do it. And then keep I have to keep coming back. Yeah. Keep grounding myself.

Christopher: 01:15:38

I have to keep meditating to make sure that I'm not missing out on steps. And I'm not distracted by extraneous information, that could make it, you know, successful, but still feel a sense of lostness because I'm disconnected Mhmm. From myself about what is actually needed to carry out the assignment.

Whitney: 01:15:58

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:15:59

And when the scripture came about a voice crying in the wilderness, I was like, yeah, that's where I am. And that's okay. Yeah. Like

Whitney: 01:16:09

I love that. And what's interesting about the wilderness is, like, the wilderness actually gives you an opportunity to get in touch with yourself.

Speaker 4: 01:16:16

So as

Whitney: 01:16:16

a person that spends a lot of time in the wilderness, like, even alone, right? You're never a you're never alone.

Christopher: 01:16:25

Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:16:25

Right? And, like, if I can be woo woo as fuck for a second

Christopher: 01:16:29

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:16:29

Like, the trees are alive. They have their own energy. They have their own spirit. They're interconnected underneath the ground in which you walk. You are being supported.

Christopher: 01:16:39

Right.

Whitney: 01:16:40

Right? But, like, spiritually, when are you ever alone? That's what that's what I heard on Christmas. There was a point in Christmas where I was alone during the day. Oh.

Whitney: 01:16:50

Oh, I needed it. Thank you. Yeah. But Yeah. But and, like, for a brief moment, felt lonely.

Whitney: 01:16:58

Mhmm. And then was just like, wait a minute. I'm never actually alone. Like, it's a whole team of spirit gods, ancestors, god. Like Mhmm.

Speaker 4: 01:17:07

I've

Whitney: 01:17:07

never and so I just decided I was like, hey. Can I spend Christmas with y'all? And the way I felt, immediately crowded. But, like, just but not, like, crowded, like, pressure, but, like, surrounded in love. So even in the wilderness, like, it's a moment of removal from the noise.

Whitney: 01:17:25

And I think we because we're so acclimated to the noise.

Speaker 4: 01:17:28

Yeah. Right.

Whitney: 01:17:29

We get nervous when there's no noise, but when there's no noise, you can hear yourself. When there's no noise, you can hear God.

Speaker 4: 01:17:37

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:17:37

And, like, at least that's been my experience, and that's been my truth. And it's like, when there's no noise, you can be present. Noise is distracting as fuck from presence.

Christopher: 01:17:48

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:17:48

Right? Because, like and I think that's the thing. Like, being present, even if I'm present with somebody else, I also need to be present internally with myself. Yeah. You can do that in the wilderness.

Christopher: 01:17:57

You can.

Whitney: 01:17:57

Like, the wilderness has its purpose.

Christopher: 01:17:59

It has its yes.

Whitney: 01:18:00

You know? So, yeah, you cry there, please. By all means, I know I do.

Christopher: 01:18:03

Right. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:18:04

You know? But, like, it's serving a purpose. It's a ground of cultivation.

Christopher: 01:18:12

Yeah. It's a ground of cultivation. And and and like you like you said, like, you alluded to it. It is that moment of solitude to be in tune with oneself.

Whitney: 01:18:22

Yes.

Christopher: 01:18:25

And, you know, at there there was a point in my life, it was the last couple of weeks, I was like, you know what? I feel like I feel like I chose life on hard mode, and I don't

Speaker 4: 01:18:34

want it. And

Christopher: 01:18:35

I don't appreciate it. It's like everything that everything about what's going on, it's it's just I I just chose the most difficult road every time, and it's just like it seemed germane and natural to me.

Speaker 4: 01:18:47

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:18:47

But it was just like, no. I mean, yeah. Sure. I'm so okay. Well, what what are we going to do about that?

Whitney: 01:18:53

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:18:54

You know, do we

Speaker 4: 01:18:55

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:18:56

Yeah. You know, are we going to allow ourselves to lament and resent that, or are we gonna deal with life as it comes as we are? And just, you know, and and and move ahead and take the moments that you need to take. Take a knee when you need to take a knee. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:19:11

And and and then move forward. It's like, okay, this is what it is. Yeah. But you need those moments with yourself to be able to come to that conclusion, that that you're not alone and that this life is what it is. Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:19:27

And you do have assistance and you do have help. Yeah. It's funny that you say that, you know, you're never alone because there's also been this this resurgence from I think, like, the b Simone or whatever situation. I don't know if you know, but anyway vaguely.

Whitney: 01:19:48

I try to avoid her because when people get on my nerves, I decide I don't want to let them get on my nerves anymore.

Christopher: 01:19:53

Yeah. You're right. But she's been now she's

Whitney: 01:19:55

Getting on my nerves. Yes.

Christopher: 01:19:57

No. Right? Mhmm. Now she's trying to occupy this Christian fundamentalism.

Whitney: 01:20:00

Which is crazy because it's the same spirit.

Christopher: 01:20:02

It's the same

Whitney: 01:20:02

You just got a new left, like your new label.

Christopher: 01:20:04

Right. It's a new label.

Whitney: 01:20:05

It's the same ego shit.

Christopher: 01:20:06

Preachers because I oh, so so you're just returning home to your roots.

Whitney: 01:20:09

No. You just were this it's just same ego shit. There's no Yeah. The enlightenment. Anyway, that's not

Christopher: 01:20:14

So so, anyway, she she coming back. And so this is one thing. She was like, you know, I'm nothing without God and things like that. And we've we've heard that. So it's not like a unfamiliar praise.

Christopher: 01:20:25

But it, it you know, even now, it's like, okay. I'm nothing without God, but you're suggesting that you're ever without God.

Whitney: 01:20:34

Mhmm. Right.

Speaker 4: 01:20:35

Like, this is the disconnect you were without God before.

Whitney: 01:20:38

Like, God was not present.

Christopher: 01:20:39

Right. And so there's there's this disconnect Mhmm.

Speaker 4: 01:20:42

That

Christopher: 01:20:42

happens even within religious, thinking and religious education that God is somehow separate from you and that you could be without God to the extent that you realize that you're nothing. Yeah. And I'm here to tell you that your thinking that you're nothing is merely a projection.

Whitney: 01:21:01

Period.

Christopher: 01:21:02

You're never without God. Therefore, you are something. Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:21:06

Always. No matter where you are.

Christopher: 01:21:07

No matter where you are. No matter what it is, I how you're acting Yep. You have inherent intrinsic value because God is never without you. You come from God.

Speaker 4: 01:21:15

How are you

Christopher: 01:21:15

gonna be without him?

Christian: 01:21:16

How? Okay, twins.

Christopher: 01:21:19

How are

Speaker 4: 01:21:21

you? I mean.

Christopher: 01:21:23

How? Like, you you you and God are inseparable.

Speaker 4: 01:21:26

Literally.

Christopher: 01:21:26

It's and when you're doing something, it's God as you're doing something.

Christian: 01:21:30

Mhmm. Yeah. And that's all I mean. Imagine, you know, if instead of being indoctrinated to believe that God is outside of us and that God is disappointed in us and that God is mad at us if we do this or if we don't do that, that God is punishing us for not being attentive enough. Like, he's a toddler who wants to play with his dad.

Christian: 01:22:00

Imagine if instead of those things, we got a god we were told about a god who never leaves, who's always there. Mhmm. No matter what.

Christopher: 01:22:13

I will never believe you nor forsake you.

Christian: 01:22:14

If we were

Whitney: 01:22:15

But not with a shamey, judgey finger.

Christian: 01:22:17

Not with a shamey, judgey finger.

Speaker 4: 01:22:18

Mhmm. Yeah.

Christian: 01:22:20

Not not not sees you when you sleep, it knows when you're awake kinda thing.

Whitney: 01:22:23

Not Santa

Christian: 01:22:24

God. Not Santa God. Not naughty nice list. Not that guy. Right.

Christian: 01:22:28

Right? The ever present, loving, and supportive, and Vulnerable. Encouraging, willing to be with you in the mess. Mhmm. Love you in the mess.

Christian: 01:22:44

Not look at you like garbage in the mess. Non transactional god. Imagine if the god that we learned about was the one when you were approaching something scary, you weren't scared to trust him and take his hand and get on the escalator. Imagine. Better metaphor.

Christian: 01:23:06

Right? Imagine if that's the guy you get introduced to, that anytime you run into him, it's like, oh, you are trustworthy

Speaker 4: 01:23:16

Mhmm.

Christian: 01:23:16

Instead of, oh, let me pretend to be someone else.

Whitney: 01:23:20

Right. Let me not piss you off.

Christian: 01:23:22

Let me make sure I don't piss you off. Yep. Let me make sure wrathful. Let me make sure that I because I mean and me and Chris had this discussion. I I was reading All About Love by Bell Hooks.

Christian: 01:23:35

Y'all gonna hear a fuck ton about that.

Christopher: 01:23:37

Oh, yeah. I'm starting to read

Speaker 4: 01:23:38

it too.

Whitney: 01:23:38

Of my favorites. Y'all read the whole series. Go read it. Salvation and Communion.

Christian: 01:23:42

Yeah. We have to get the other 2, but I I just bought the first one because I I need to reread the first one because I listened to it. But she had there's a there's a part in her book, and because I listened to it on audio, I I'm a mess it up. But she says something to the effect of all people want to be loved unconditionally, and that's what we go looking for. And I had I had to replay that 3 times because I was like, it never occurred to me that was an option.

Christian: 01:24:10

Never occurred to me that was an option. The even the god presented to me Yep. Was not someone who would love me unconditionally. It it never occurred to me that was a possibility.

Whitney: 01:24:21

Damn, Christian.

Christian: 01:24:22

And It's real. Yeah. And when I said it, I was like, that feels kind of fucked up, but it's also very eye opening Mhmm. That a lot of us don't expect more.

Christopher: 01:24:36

No. We we don't trust a God. We even though we've preached

Christian: 01:24:40

We're scared of them.

Christopher: 01:24:41

For the for the most of our most of our lives,

Speaker 4: 01:24:43

even though

Christopher: 01:24:43

we've preached a God that is love and loves unconditionally We don't believe that. Can't conceptualize that, and therefore, we don't trust can't conceptualize that, and, therefore, we don't trust it. Yeah. And so Nope. While with our lips, we say what God is, but with our hearts and our minds and with our rules and our regulations, we was we live with a God who has conditions.

Christian: 01:25:01

Yeah. Absolutely.

Christopher: 01:25:02

Because we have conditions. And so

Christian: 01:25:04

"God is love. But make sure you don't do x, y, and

Christopher: 01:25:06

z. Mhmm.

Christian: 01:25:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God said he'd never leave you for or forsake you, but make sure you don't do this. Right.

Christopher: 01:25:12

Make sure you don't find yourself

Whitney: 01:25:13

for God might send you to hell

Whitney: 01:25:15

where He is not.

Whitney: 01:25:16

thus leaving

Whitney: 01:25:17

And forsaking you.

Christopher: 01:25:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 01:25:20

Yeah. Yeah. So imagine, if you will,

Christian: 01:25:25

that it

Christian: 01:25:25

that that we got to meet the God that we actually believed in the God that we be talking about. Yeah. Let's imagine that. And then let's, like, make that reality. Like, love like that god Yeah.

Christian: 01:25:45

And expect that love from people. But not, like, in a, if you don't give it, I'm gonna cut you off way, but in a, this is my expectation.

Whitney: 01:25:53

Mhmm.

Christian: 01:25:54

And I understand that you're struggling. And here, like, to have the the ability to communicate in ways that lets people know what the expectation is without shaming them for not meeting it.

Christopher: 01:26:06

Right. Right. When when love is what you are and love is who you are, you would do it regardless of what you get from it. Yep. Because it's not transaction.

Christopher: 01:26:16

You are who you are. Like, for me

Christian: 01:26:18

If God is love, God is love.

Christopher: 01:26:20

Yeah. For me, I you know, people people people have called me kind. And not because I want something out of you. That's just who I am.

Whitney: 01:26:27

I mean, that's what kindness is.

Christopher: 01:26:28

Right? Kindness is. I mean yeah. I mean, but like you said, like, I I do good things. I do nice things, not because I want a certain thing or I think God will bless me.

Christopher: 01:26:37

Like, no. That's just Yeah. That's what you're supposed to do. Like, that's that's a a normal thing to do. Just like you and just like Christian, y'all do things because that's who you are and not because you think there's gonna be a certain reward at the end of the rainbow for whatever the fuck you think you're supposed to be doing it.

Christopher: 01:26:55

And so when you make, you know, that your identity, you'd start to see less transactions. Yeah. And when you're not focused on transactions, do you have a bigger and wider space for certain stuff that if you were looking at it transactionally, you would count this all as a waste. Yeah. I mean, you would.

Whitney: 01:27:17

No. That's When you

Christopher: 01:27:18

when you think of the grace of God and all of that, like, when you try to tally it up in a capitalist transaction waste, he is operating at a fucking loss.

Whitney: 01:27:26

Yeah. No.

Whitney: 01:27:29

big black hole.

Christian: 01:27:31

Extravagantly wasteful.

Christopher: 01:27:32

He is operating at a fucking loss, which is why we can't look at God with a capitalistic lens. We can't look at us with a capitalistic lens, our relationships, because we do give a whole lot more than what we can quantify we get in return. But when we do get what we've what we've given in for, then we then when the the actions the the action of getting what we've invested, it totally

Christian: 01:27:57

It feels extravagant.

Christopher: 01:27:58

It feels extravagant to the point that all that we've considered giving up, it's irrelevant.

Whitney: 01:28:03

Exactly.

Christopher: 01:28:04

It becomes irrelevant. When we finally receive the love that we've been giving, we sit in that moment.

Whitney: 01:28:13

That's crazy because what that also says is is that for God to love and have connection with us is worth all that bullshit.

Christopher: 01:28:22

It is.

Whitney: 01:28:23

That it's it makes it all worth it. And I'm like, oh, that's massive. We can't be a filthy rag.

Christopher: 01:28:29

Why would I want to? Right. Right.

Whitney: 01:28:30

Right. Right.

Christian: 01:28:31

You put yourself,

Christopher: 01:28:32

which is why they keep doing

Speaker 4: 01:28:33

it.

Christopher: 01:28:34

Right. It's it's his own eternal reward system.

Christian: 01:28:36

Why would you turn over the house hunting for a coin that ain't worth it? No, that's it. And I think that's

Whitney: 01:28:41

also one of the things I'm telling y'all, This Osho book just get into it. It's an old book. It's an old book.

Christopher: 01:28:45

Okay.

Whitney: 01:28:46

Oh, let's begin. But but like one of the other things he talks about is that, like, in true presence, your actions become actions and not reactions. Mhmm. And when you are in past or projected past, also known as future Mhmm. All you're doing is reacting.

Whitney: 01:29:01

Right? You said this, so I'm a say that. You cut me off in traffic, so I'm a do this. Right. But when you're present with yourself, all of your actions are dictated by your inner being.

Whitney: 01:29:13

Right. Right? So it doesn't matter what that person does. It you know, because that's what you wanna say. Like, he tells the story of, like, there's a Buddha who's walking through a town.

Whitney: 01:29:23

And for whatever reason, the people of this town have decided they hate this Buddha. Fuck this Buddha. Right? And so he's walking through, and they follow him spewing all this shit, tell him all these negative things, just projecting all this nasty shit onto him. And he turns to them and says, okay.

Whitney: 01:29:33

I have to go now. Shit onto him. And he turns

Speaker 4: 01:29:36

to them

Whitney: 01:29:37

and says, okay. I have to go now because I have to go to the next town. I'm expected there, but I'm actually gonna make my way back through here. So if you guys wanna continue this later, I'll be back.

Christopher: 01:29:45

Right.

Whitney: 01:29:47

You know? And so he goes, and he comes back. And they're like, what the fuck? Like, why why did why would you say that? Like like, you know, why would you why would you come back through here for this?

Whitney: 01:29:59

And he was just like, well, this is what you need.

Christopher: 01:30:04

Damn.

Christian: 01:30:05

Stares into the abyss.

Whitney: 01:30:06

Right. Because because all of his actions are motivated because he's present.

Christopher: 01:30:11

Right.

Whitney: 01:30:11

And so I'm just like, that shit really

Christian: 01:30:14

man,

Whitney: 01:30:14

it speaks. And I'm like, that's also God.

Christian: 01:30:17

Lining up for abuse. Yes. Because that seems to be what you see right now.

Christopher: 01:30:20

Yeah. You need you need to

Whitney: 01:30:21

you need to watch somebody else.

Christopher: 01:30:23

Right. You

Christian: 01:30:24

feel abused. You feel despondent. And okay. No judge.

Christopher: 01:30:27

Right.

Whitney: 01:30:28

And I don't have to internalize any of that.

Speaker 4: 01:30:30

I

Christopher: 01:30:30

don't have to

Speaker 4: 01:30:30

internalize that.

Whitney: 01:30:30

I'm not really I am here with myself, and that makes me safe with myself.

Christopher: 01:30:34

Right.

Christian: 01:30:35

Man.

Christopher: 01:30:36

God could only be with us when God see God as us.

Whitney: 01:30:40

Say it again.

Christopher: 01:30:42

God can only be with us when God sees God himself as us. That's the only reason why he was able to come down

Speaker 4: 01:30:51

here.

Whitney: 01:30:51

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:30:53

Like, otherwise, he wouldn't stay the fuck up. I mean, when we when we talk about the incarnation of Jesus Christ and we wrap ourselves in that narrative, when we frame it and when we think about it, he only is able to be with us because

Christian: 01:31:08

He is us.

Christopher: 01:31:09

He is us. Yeah. Like like he breathed his breath of life into Adam. Yep. And then there's nothing in the text that says when he bring men out out of the clay that he ever washed his hands Right.

Christopher: 01:31:23

Clay off his hands.

Whitney: 01:31:25

Right.

Speaker 4: 01:31:26

You know

Christopher: 01:31:26

what I mean? We all use. So the the this. So the the issue with God being vulnerable with us is him identifying with us enough to feel as though he could allow himself to be Mhmm. Himself with us.

Christopher: 01:31:44

Yeah. That's right. So, anyway

Speaker 4: 01:31:46

yeah. Well

Christopher: 01:31:47

Enough with the heretic hour.

Whitney: 01:31:50

It's a heretic hour. And if it is, I'm like, that's

Christopher: 01:31:53

I'm I'm here with it. I'm here for it.

Whitney: 01:31:54

And at the end of the day heretic.

Christopher: 01:31:56

It's Erotic means choice.

Christian: 01:31:57

It does. They need that.

Whitney: 01:31:59

And they

Christian: 01:31:59

Do y'all need that? Do y'all know?

Whitney: 01:32:00

I don't think our listeners do. I mean, but if you do Yeah. If that's what you need.

Christian: 01:32:04

Okay.

Christopher: 01:32:04

If that's what you need.

Christian: 01:32:05

That's what you need. If that's what you need.

Speaker 4: 01:32:08

Okay. I

Whitney: 01:32:09

listen. I wasn't a tick to begin with, so I don't. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:32:13

Well, I

Whitney: 01:32:13

don't got no dog in that fight. Right.

Speaker 4: 01:32:15

Well, you. Saying, I just realized. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:32:19

Like, okay, I can't be a heretic. I wasn't. I wasn't.

Christopher: 01:32:21

I wasn't a tick.

Whitney: 01:32:22

I wasn't.

Christopher: 01:32:22

That was my blessing and parasite.

Whitney: 01:32:24

I wasn't. Hey. Hey. Well, Hey. Yo.

Whitney: 01:32:27

There's

Speaker 4: 01:32:27

there's that.

Whitney: 01:32:28

But no. Like so but that's what you need.

Christian: 01:32:31

This is it's just what you need. If you need to think of us as heretics, but you also wanna continue listening, go for it, sis. Go for it, sir.

Christopher: 01:32:39

Alright. It was

Christian: 01:32:39

We welcome you.

Christopher: 01:32:40

There was a preacher that said something about that, like, where he finished his presentation. Somebody came up to it. I don't agree with what you said with it. Oh, okay. What are you gonna do about it?

Christopher: 01:32:49

Well, I'm a go read. Oh, okay. Congratulations. That's great.

Speaker 4: 01:32:52

At least

Christopher: 01:32:53

I got you to read. Right.

Speaker 4: 01:32:54

Like, this

Christian: 01:32:55

result, I can support.

Christopher: 01:32:56

I could I could appreciate that. And so, yeah, like, I was I think I was telling LaShawn the other day. I was like, LaShawn, another partner with me on another podcast. I was like, look. I exist for people to be enlightened or to very much be very much more informed about their opposition towards me.

Speaker 4: 01:33:10

Yeah. Yeah. Either either way,

Christopher: 01:33:12

I could do something

Speaker 4: 01:33:13

to you.

Christian: 01:33:13

You're going to learn more about why you don't.

Christopher: 01:33:15

Why you don't.

Whitney: 01:33:16

But if you don't, then why

Christian: 01:33:18

would you watch? Why would you listen?

Whitney: 01:33:20

Okay. Yeah. Like, I'm okay. Listen. I am bereft of fucks.

Christian: 01:33:25

To give? Just fresh out. Period? Fresh out.

Whitney: 01:33:28

I just I'm bereft. I don't got them. Mhmm. Okay. I ain't had them for a long time.

Whitney: 01:33:33

Like, that used to be, like, one one of the things all my friends would say, oh, Whitney ain't got no fucks. She's fresh out of fucks. Yep. Yeah. Except it's not fresh anymore.

Whitney: 01:33:42

It's I've been

Christopher: 01:33:43

Been out of

Christian: 01:33:43

fucks. Got spider webs now.

Whitney: 01:33:46

You know, it's just dusty. Just lay up. You gotta, you know, close your eyes, see what come back. But, like, yeah, it's do what do what you need.

Christian: 01:33:55

Do what you need.

Whitney: 01:33:56

Do what you need.

Speaker 4: 01:33:56

You need. You need.

Christian: 01:33:56

You for joining us today, sharing this time with us as we walk through the idea of vulnerability and a vulnerable God.

Whitney: 01:34:05

Who is vulnerable.

Christian: 01:34:06

Who is worthy because of his vulnerability.

Christopher: 01:34:09

He's worthy.

Speaker 4: 01:34:10

Hi. Yes.

Christian: 01:34:11

This is what? You're outrageous. We are.

Speaker 4: 01:34:16

And you love

Whitney: 01:34:17

Church Kids Incorporated. You you love it.

Christian: 01:34:21

Thank you for joining us. We will see

Whitney: 01:34:24

you In a couple weeks.

Christian: 01:34:25

In a couple of weeks. You can also if you wanna hear more from us, any of us, you can check out all of the socials. Mhmm. And season 1. And season 1.

Whitney: 01:34:37

Up, y'all. Listen to the Uphos. Pack it up. And jump. And right foot and stomp.

Whitney: 01:34:44

Hey. Your left foot and stomp. And cha cha with your right.

Christian: 01:34:48

We'll see y'all later.

Whitney: 01:34:49

Cha cha with your left.

Christian: 01:34:51

Hey. And turn to the right and move to

Speaker 4: 01:34:54

the left. Yes, sir.

Christian: 01:34:55

Back it up. Uh-uh. And jump. Yay.

Christopher: 01:34:59

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:35:04

Thanks for joining us for this episode of the UPWARD Project podcast. We hope you found fresh perspective and continue to make space for real growth. If you enjoy today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcast. You can follow us on social media at the Uproot Project Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, or visit us at www theuprootpodcast.com for more content. To contact us, feel free to drop us a line at hello at the uproot podcast dot com.

Whitney: 01:35:38

Until next time. Keep living fully, learning openly, and loving deeply. We'll see you soon.