Christian: 00:12

Welcome to the Uproot Project podcast, where we dig deep to uncover and dismantle toxic beliefs about God, ourselves, and each other. Our goal is to replant new insights in the fertile soil of wisdom and love, fostering personal growth and transformation. Join us as we explore new ways of thinking and living in a world of complexity and diversity.

Whitney: 00:41

Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back, y'all.

Christopher: 00:44

Hey. Hey. Yo.

Whitney: 00:46

My name over here ain't

Christian: 00:47

nothing over there. Party over here. Welcome back. We are ridiculous, and you already knew this. My name is Christian

Christopher: 00:55

Sheher. My name is Chris, he him.

Whitney: 00:58

My name is Whitney Sheher and a little nauseated.

Christian: 01:01

Oh. This is the reality.

Whitney: 01:03

Y'all that's what that pause was. My face did a thing. We're just trying to bear with us. I I feel fine though.

Christian: 01:08

I'll be okay.

Whitney: 01:09

I don't I just say

Christian: 01:10

where they belong as as much as possible. I mean, but if they need to evacuate, y'all y'all just gonna get a pause.

Whitney: 01:15

You won't even notice.

Christian: 01:17

I mean, you might Big up to our editor. Probably gonna talk about it,

Whitney: 01:20

but that's just the way we are.

Christian: 01:22

Bonus clip. Dude, that's just the way we are.

Whitney: 01:24

That's just the way. That's exactly what my brain did but I didn't if that's where you were gonna go. Exciting. Yep.

Christian: 01:30

You better sing it. Good

Whitney: 01:34

times. Good times. Mhmm.

Christian: 01:36

Did y'all miss us?

Christopher: 01:37

RRP two part.

Christian: 01:38

Is that who sings that? Mhmm. Yeah. That's the only part of the song I know. Yep.

Christian: 01:43

That's you know the instruments. It's part of

Whitney: 01:46

the Well It's

Christian: 01:47

part of the same section. Things will never be the same. It's the part that's the part of the song I know. Those four little bars including the instruments. It's part

Whitney: 01:56

of the song I know. Oh, y'all. Okay. We're get

Christian: 02:01

into this mind for this moment.

Whitney: 02:02

Yes. So as usual, if you are in a place where you can, you know who's not included.

Christian: 02:10

Those with driving needs. Yes. Eyes required. Keep them open.

Whitney: 02:14

Or any other thing, like if you're operating heavy machinery.

Christian: 02:17

Or generally at work and people you don't need people thinking you sleep, you know.

Whitney: 02:20

I mean, that's gonna be like sixty to ninety seconds. Close your eyes. That's revolutionary. Take your space. Okay?

Whitney: 02:26

Fuck that Resist. In the words that I say all the time, fuck them people.

Christian: 02:30

Resist.

Whitney: 02:31

Y'all remember okay. Before we go into this, do y'all remember just a few short months ago when Luigi did his big one? Oh, and that CEO left a vacant position and they posted that hoe the next day.

Christian: 02:42

Oh, I do.

Whitney: 02:43

Yeah. That's what they gonna do. Stop giving them people your everything.

Christopher: 02:46

Life will go on.

Whitney: 02:49

Life will go on. Close your eyes at your desk Unless you're on camera, then turn the camera off and close your eyes because also fuck them people.

Christian: 02:56

Okay. They could just think you went to the potty. It's fine.

Whitney: 02:58

That's it. So if you are in a position where you can close your eyes, please do so now. Close or lower your gaze. Get settled in your body. Feel your feet on the floor.

Whitney: 03:09

Feel the earth supporting you. However, whether you're sitting down on the ground or in a chair, a seat, just center yourself in your body. We're going to take a deep breath in together, and then we're going to let it out slowly from our mouth and we'll do that a couple of times. So inhale, and then let it out from the mouth. Again, inhale, and let it out slowly.

Whitney: 03:42

And now as you continue to breathe, imagine that you are creating a safe and quiet space within yourself. A space where you can just be. No judgment, no pressure, just you as you are right now. Now gently bring to mind an area of your life that may be calling for healing. There's no need to fix it.

Whitney: 04:09

Remember, we are not here for this purpose. Don't push it away. Just acknowledge it like you're greeting an old friend. And as you inhale, imagine breathing in warmth, compassion and acceptance. As you exhale, release any tension or resistance you have.

Whitney: 04:36

Allow yourself to rest in the truth that vulnerability is not weakness. It's an opening. It's a doorway to deeper healing and connection. Take in one more breath to seal in this practice. And then I want you to let it out with a sigh.

Whitney: 05:00

And when you're ready, go ahead, open your eyes, flutter your eyes open, look around, get back in your body, and we're gonna go on with the show.

Christopher: 05:12

Alright. So today's topic is going to be vulnerability as a path to healing, how embracing vulnerability brings emotional and spiritual healing. And one of the things that we wanna just start off talking about is just overall how difficult it is. So you go down this process. I mean, that seems to be a really good place to start.

Christian: 05:39

Gonna acknowledge that this is

Christopher: 05:41

It's hard. Hard.

Whitney: 05:42

Yeah. And it

Christopher: 05:43

Which is why healing is intentional.

Christian: 05:46

You gotta do it on purpose.

Whitney: 05:47

You have to do it on purpose. But maybe without so much effort sometimes. Intent, not effort.

Christopher: 05:55

There you go.

Whitney: 05:55

Expound. So it's like we were talking about think we talked about this either one or two episodes ago. This idea that like living things grow. Yes. Right?

Christopher: 06:06

Mhmm. And

Whitney: 06:06

so this kind of the same way, I don't know if we were gonna talk about this this early, but here we go. The same way that like industrialization and capitalism has put on us this need to like constantly be productive. We take that and apply that to so many areas of our own humanity. We do. Right?

Whitney: 06:24

And so, like, oh, I'm being lazy if I'm resting.

Christian: 06:26

What? Fuck

Christopher: 06:27

that. No.

Whitney: 06:29

Soundly. Fuck it soundly. Okay? But but we we then also take that to our healing. Right?

Whitney: 06:36

And so, like, we are gonna put in all the inputs so we can get the outputs, and it becomes like this frenetic thing where, like, your sole focus is just on healing so much so to where, a, it can get exhausting and overwhelming. Yeah. But at the end of the day, if you set the intent to heal and have the aligned action of being present, because healing actually requires presence. Right? You have to be here now to see what's really happening.

Whitney: 07:03

If you're constantly in the future and you're worried and you're anxious, you're not here now, baby. How are we gonna do anything about it in the future if we the like, the actions The future. For the future is now. They happen now. And so being present and having the intent and orientation towards healing will will will Yeah.

Whitney: 07:23

Facilitate growth.

Christopher: 07:25

It will.

Whitney: 07:26

It will align you with growth Yeah.

Christopher: 07:28

And healing. There's there used to be, when when I was back in church early on, one of the big things that we say that they only be out of a

Christian: 07:36

storm

Whitney: 07:36

is

Christian: 07:36

through.

Whitney: 07:37

Absolutely.

Christopher: 07:38

And, you know, just very simplified way of understanding what you were saying Yeah. Even now is like, you know, you have to be with yourself through the process.

Whitney: 07:47

Absolutely. Have

Christopher: 07:48

to aligned. You have to actively engage Mhmm. In the process. You can't check out.

Whitney: 07:53

Yeah. Yes. And And it's not even

Christopher: 07:56

You have to lock in.

Whitney: 07:57

Mhmm.

Christian: 07:57

Yeah. But I think there's a we we we had some brief conversations about this previously with my relationship with food, which was the thing I thought of that needed healing. There is, I'm trying to remember exact phrase you said, you said we need to go into it with intent and not effort. Yes. And so the because of the extremes that our culture tends to make us go towards when we are attempting to heal something, first of all, usually the word in our head, my head, my head y'all, the word in my head is not healing, it is fixing.

Whitney: 08:33

Fixing. Yep,

Christian: 08:34

and there is something wrong with me.

Whitney: 08:37

You better pull it out, tease it out, tease it out. Feel it, come on.

Christian: 08:40

Yeah, and so that narrative of fixing doesn't just require intent, it requires effort, it requires attack, right? If I want to fix something,

Christopher: 08:52

then

Christian: 08:53

I'm gonna go all in, right? But if you want to heal, and I'm a use an example because your got me and my knees, we got history. Okay? I have been dislocating my knees since I was 12. I am currently 38.

Christian: 09:08

Okay, that's over twenty five years of knees not being what they belong.

Whitney: 09:11

That's real.

Christian: 09:12

Damn. And I've had two knee surgeries. I was diagnosed with patellofemoral arthritis, I know it's long, when I was 27.

Christopher: 09:21

All that means is just knee thigh.

Christian: 09:23

Yeah. That's what that means. Knee thigh.

Christopher: 09:25

Telephone. Knee thigh.

Christian: 09:26

Manee thighs. Got arthritis of the knee Oh

Whitney: 09:33

my gosh.

Christian: 09:33

Knee thigh right There's

Christopher: 09:34

now science for

Christian: 09:35

The knee thigh right is. That's what I got. Wow. Alright. Anyway, and so I've when just for an example, when I had my first surgery, was in high school and I was trying to get back to being in the marching band.

Christian: 09:48

Right? Mhmm. Because that's what I did. I'm a band nerd. Hello.

Christian: 09:50

I played bass clarinet

Whitney: 09:52

so well. She did it well. Yes. Absolutely. Alright.

Christopher: 09:54

She she really did

Christian: 09:55

the time. Still managed to be in the middle band because I could read music and I could I could feel pretty good.

Whitney: 10:00

To this day, bass clarinet is my second favorite instrument.

Christian: 10:03

There you go. Which is number one? Trumpet?

Whitney: 10:04

Absolutely. Oh,

Christian: 10:05

I still remember. I feel good now. Absolutely. I knew it wasn't saxophone. Absolutely not.

Christopher: 10:10

I've just gone wrong.

Whitney: 10:11

I've warmed up to saxophone a little bit more than I used to be. Like, I don't hate it.

Christopher: 10:15

But I used to play saxophone.

Whitney: 10:17

Did you? Saxophone.

Christian: 10:20

That was a they they said that so much. It was so fucking annoying.

Christopher: 10:24

Saxophone. Is it from The Simpsons?

Whitney: 10:27

It is.

Christopher: 10:27

Yeah. It's absolutely insane.

Christian: 10:29

I didn't know where it was from when I was in school. And I just

Whitney: 10:31

I was like, why are y'all

Christian: 10:32

saying this all the damn time? Simpsons.

Whitney: 10:34

Lisa's played Lisa played the saxophone.

Christian: 10:35

I knew she played the saxophone, but I never watched it.

Whitney: 10:38

Anyway, that was Homer

Christopher: 10:39

Yeah.

Whitney: 10:39

Talking about Lisa playing

Christopher: 10:41

the saxophone.

Christian: 10:41

Right. Yes. That makes that from what I know about Homer, makes sense. He was

Christopher: 10:44

trying so hard.

Whitney: 10:45

He was.

Christian: 10:46

So when I dislocated my knee walking down the stairs, when I tell y'all my knees is they do what they do, I needed to we were going my band was going to Grand Nationals, which was a really big deal. We hadn't been in a long time. It was in Indianapolis. And is it doxing myself if I tell you where I went to school? We went to I went to a very band focused school.

Christian: 11:07

Yes.

Whitney: 11:07

Okay? But also very black and brown, so like not in the way that I think other people would necessarily

Christian: 11:14

So it was it was military style. Right? But we don't people if you're in band, you're gonna you're gonna under if you're a bandner, you know what I'm about to say. We were a core style marching band. Mhmm.

Christian: 11:26

Okay? That we did not do what you see TSU do.

Whitney: 11:29

Well, because y'all had Geiger, and Geiger wasn't black.

Christian: 11:32

Right. Geiger wasn't black. But he let us do more stuff than most bands with a white band director. Fair. Fair.

Whitney: 11:40

Anyway. They were cold. They were cold.

Christian: 11:42

We were freaking amazing. There's at least four people I know who are professional musicians that were in band with me, and two of them went to Juilliard. And so like Nice. There's at least five or six of them that are now band directors. Like, they Mhmm.

Christian: 11:56

They will spot that life. Okay? Like, I went to school with a real amazing bander. Shout out to y'all. If you were in the band with me with Geiger, y'all are the real ones.

Christian: 12:05

Yeah. So yeah, I wanted to get back on the marching field. I had dislocated my knee right like towards the end of the year. And so I had surgery that summer and I wanted to get back out on the field. Practice starts in the summer.

Christian: 12:18

So here's the thing. For me to get back on the field, I had to have surgery. So I have my surgery, but you can't force healing. Nope. No.

Christian: 12:26

Right? Nope. When I first got out of surgery, I could not lift my leg.

Whitney: 12:35

Mhmm.

Christian: 12:36

And so it started with going to therapy, wiggle your toes. Right? And so, yes, there were times I could push myself and be more intentional about doing my exercises. Mhmm. Just that people told me when they told me to try something to be trying it regularly.

Christian: 12:53

But here's the thing, if you force that, you're going backwards.

Christopher: 12:57

Oh, yeah.

Christian: 12:59

She did throw something

Whitney: 13:00

to me. I found something to throw. I have ChapStick today. Forced that to me. I'm gonna need this again, I'm sure for you or Chris.

Christian: 13:06

Yeah. If you force that, you're going backwards. Right?

Christopher: 13:08

I may have to follow-up. So

Christian: 13:10

Sorry. If you force it, you're going backwards. So healing, while it does take intent

Whitney: 13:14

Yes.

Christian: 13:15

And it does take some effort, like you have to do It takes a line action. But the action gotta be aligned. It has to be aligned. Because in the beginning, I can't just jump up and try the new dual jumping jack.

Whitney: 13:26

Correct. I

Christian: 13:27

gotta there's there's an order to this. Exactly. Right?

Christopher: 13:30

There is an order to it and an order that you may not intuitively perceive it to be so. The

Christian: 13:40

violence in the room.

Whitney: 13:41

I'm doing these things today. I am excited.

Christian: 13:43

Right. And

Whitney: 13:44

so No. That's that

Christian: 13:45

that part.

Whitney: 13:46

Yes. Because It's on the other side of you.

Christopher: 13:48

Okay.

Christian: 13:49

We'll get it. But the with with my knee, properly. Right? Because right after surgery, I had a you don't need to know what kind of surgery I had. Just know that my knee wouldn't bend.

Christian: 14:05

They put

Christopher: 14:05

Patellofemoral surgery.

Christian: 14:07

Okay. They put it in something A knee fast. Nothing.

Christopher: 14:11

They put

Whitney: 14:11

it high. Come now. Unto me.

Christian: 14:13

They put it in something that would immobilize it. So my leg was straight Yeah. To allow the healing process to take place, which seems like I want I need to walk. Why would you want my knee straight? Well, we we fix some things.

Christian: 14:26

So for a time

Whitney: 14:27

Mhmm.

Christian: 14:28

It seems counterintuitive that it needs to not move. Hey. This is how we start the healing process. Be still.

Christopher: 14:34

Right.

Whitney: 14:35

That's literally it. That's it. But the issue is people are so uncomfortable with discomfort that we're trying to move through it quickly. Right? Yes.

Christian: 14:49

What are you doing? What are what are you accomplishing?

Whitney: 14:51

You're prolonging and fate avoiding. Mhmm. I'm not the one yo. This ain't fun, love.

Christopher: 14:57

Right. That's

Whitney: 14:57

flow tree. That's flow tree. I didn't know if you were gonna catch up with me. But no, that's what happens. Right?

Whitney: 15:01

End up making the the time to heal Prolonging it. Longer because you're not actually healing, you're trying to fix. Right. You're trying to fix. That's what's happening.

Christopher: 15:09

Activity is not productivity.

Whitney: 15:11

Not always. Come on. That's really it. Right? And so like if that action isn't aligned that's what I'm saying with effort.

Whitney: 15:16

Align. I'm not saying you don't you do nothing. Right. Right? You take the aligned action and sometimes the aligned action is inaction.

Whitney: 15:23

Sometimes Yeah.

Christian: 15:24

Sometimes you need to be still.

Whitney: 15:25

Sometimes you gotta sit in the middle of the mess and figure out the lay of the land.

Christopher: 15:29

You

Christian: 15:29

got to mobilize it. Sometimes you need to pay attention.

Whitney: 15:32

Yes. Like, all the time you need to pay attention.

Christian: 15:34

Well, I mean Yes. Like, that needs to be your main Yes.

Whitney: 15:38

Presence is your main activity.

Christian: 15:40

And I said that because with my knee, one of the things that I learned was like I had to reconnect my brain to the muscles that move my leg. Yes. Yep. I literally would sit there going, how do I move that muscle? Brain, think about your calf.

Christian: 15:59

Think about your calf. Where is your calf? Okay, try to make it twitch. That didn't do anything. Okay.

Christian: 16:05

That's not your calf. And so I'm literally I'm concentrating

Whitney: 16:09

Mhmm.

Christian: 16:10

But I am intentionally reconnecting to the parts of my body, my physical body in this case, that are not operating the way that I want them to currently.

Whitney: 16:21

You are disconnecting disconnecting to the parts of you that are disconnected. Because they were disconnected. They were off That's what healing is. Right? Like, there

Christopher: 16:29

so things back online.

Whitney: 16:30

Right. And so there are so many things that we are disconnected from and oh, okay. Y'all, so listen. I'm reading a book. I brought it downstairs because I said, listen.

Christian: 16:38

She knew. Knew. Already knew. See the outline.

Whitney: 16:41

I've seen the video. Okay? And I'm just gonna bring the the book. Come bring

Christian: 16:45

Come do that mess in this podcast.

Whitney: 16:46

That part. I'm a bring it mess up in here. Bring it. And so one of the things so I'm I'm rereading because I finally got a tangible hard copy because the I've I thought I had read it via audiobook until I got the hard copy and I said, I missed so much because my hands were idle and I can't listen in anyway. Yeah.

Whitney: 17:03

But I'm rereading Gary Zukarov's The Seat of the Soul, which is one of like Oprah's favorite books of all time.

Christopher: 17:07

Okay. I got an

Whitney: 17:08

Oprah

Christopher: 17:08

classic too. Go ahead.

Whitney: 17:09

I have several. I I fuck with Oprah. What y'all say about auntie. I get it. We don't agree with everything.

Christopher: 17:14

She's a billionaire. Fine.

Whitney: 17:15

Yeah. Yeah. Heard. But Oprah has been instrumental in so much of my spiritual deconstruction just because of her own and the way she has done that so publicly. And like the book she has read, the conversation she has had just from my youth up to now.

Whitney: 17:29

I just I am grateful for Oprah in that way. But Gary's book, he talks about so many things. And one of the the quotes that I was reading the other day while sitting on my driveway in the sun because sometimes you got a lizard and was that process is honored in reverence. So when you have a reverence for life Mhmm. That means you have to have a reverence for the processes of life.

Christopher: 17:58

Mhmm. Wow.

Whitney: 17:59

Right? Knowing that things don't happen on whatever timeline you think. Because also time is a construct. Come on, y'all.

Christian: 18:04

Yeah. We know. Mhmm. So We know what we don't know.

Whitney: 18:07

Right. But, like, we have these timetables that we've made up and we are like, oh, we're gonna do this by then because this is when we decided arbitrarily and now we're, like, committed to it. And it's like, no. No. No.

Whitney: 18:16

But life has its own flow, its own healing process, its own all these things. Right? Yeah. And so reverence for life is that. The other another thing that he says, which I don't remember what pages on, I have that one Bookmark.

Whitney: 18:30

Dog beard. So Mhmm. Is he talks about vulnerability with your emotions. Right?

Christopher: 18:36

Oh

Whitney: 18:36

lord. And how that is the beginning of a spiritual journey. Yep. Because your emotions are connected to that higher self. Yeah.

Whitney: 18:44

And so if you cannot be vulnerable enough to experience your emotions without feeling the need to change them To

Christopher: 18:52

Yep.

Whitney: 18:52

To fix them, then you are going to continue to be disconnected from yourself. And for me, these two things come together really powerfully. Right? If I can be vulnerable with myself and sit with that, then I am now in motion of risk like, having reverence for the process

Christopher: 19:11

Yeah.

Whitney: 19:12

Of life. Yeah. And what's funny for me personally, I'm in a weird y'all, I don't listen. I'm in a weird space where everything is like the best. Yeah.

Whitney: 19:22

And I don't know what it doesn't feel temporary. Like, I'm just really having the best life. And not because of the situation circumstances like I I feel like I said this to my friend the other night. I feel like my soul and my personality have come home and the WiFi has synced up. And so with that, it's like, oh, shit.

Whitney: 19:41

I can see. And so like when things are uncomfortable, I'm like, oh, but there's a reason. And not in an arbitrary way like,

Christian: 19:48

oh, no, no, no.

Whitney: 19:48

This is part of the process. Oh, something's happening.

Christopher: 19:52

Right.

Whitney: 19:52

I can't wait to see what it is because I don't fucking know and I'm okay with that.

Christopher: 19:56

Right.

Whitney: 19:56

Which is that y'all let me tell you how that was a process.

Christian: 19:59

Develop me.

Christopher: 19:59

Yeah. To get there. And I think that's what what what people try to preach when they talk about have joy or having this Yeah.

Christian: 20:06

Yeah. Joy. That is what they're trying to

Whitney: 20:07

tell.

Christopher: 20:08

And that is not this is not versus happiness. It was based in situations, but it's really right. Exactly. Sorry. But the joy that they talk about is very much an abiding happiness.

Christopher: 20:21

Yes. Yes. That there this is a disposition.

Whitney: 20:24

Absolutely. It's an orientation towards life.

Christopher: 20:26

It's an orientation towards life.

Whitney: 20:27

Yeah. Absolutely.

Christopher: 20:28

And that's not something that, like I said, comes about as a result of

Christian: 20:31

Events. Mhmm.

Christopher: 20:32

Happy stance or osmosis. This comes as, like you said, when we put ourselves in alignment Yeah. With ourselves. And so we approach life with a a unique and particular outlook.

Whitney: 20:45

Yeah. That and you move in such a way. And so I think

Christopher: 20:48

Mhmm.

Whitney: 20:48

Y'all have heard pieces of my journey, right, for the last over the last year or so. It's been longer than that.

Christopher: 20:53

But Yeah.

Whitney: 20:54

But there are we are not conditioned to function that way. No. Right? Right. We are conditioned very rationally, very right?

Christopher: 21:05

Cerebral.

Whitney: 21:05

Yes. Extremely. Very five senses oriented, and which this book largely talks about. So if you go read the book, you'll like, oh, she ain't saying nothing new. No, bitch.

Whitney: 21:12

I didn't because I wrote the same book. But, like, he talks about being a five sensory human versus a multisensory human. And the multisensory human being the part of you that connects with your intuition, with your higher self, connects to the pieces of your larger soul. Yeah. Right.

Whitney: 21:29

And I'm like, hey, I ain't really been a five sensory human most of my life. And as a young person, that caused me a lot of distress because I exist in a world with a lot of five sensory humans. Right. And so Yes. As like a highly intuitive child who has these gifts, who is a channel, who's done all these things, and I was like, okay, clearly, I'm fucking weird.

Whitney: 21:46

Let me try to turn it off. And it was like, you can turn it down.

Christian: 21:50

But, like,

Whitney: 21:51

off is not an option.

Christopher: 21:53

It's not an option. That's how you came in here.

Whitney: 21:55

Yeah. Like, it's not we're we're not gonna leave. Like, very much that way. Right? And so when I stopped doing that shit and let them come on, then it got very uncomfortable because it was like, hey, your life, wrong.

Whitney: 22:11

Excuse me. But but look at all that I've done. Look at what I've accomplished. Like, I am basically a success on paper. What are you talking about?

Whitney: 22:20

Like, I'm a boss bitch.

Christian: 22:22

Yeah. I'm a

Whitney: 22:24

bad bitch. All of my pronouns minus nauseated. Like, what are y'all saying? And it was like, no, no, That that, like, low thrum that you constantly feel, we've been trying to tell you, but, you know, it was a little bit quiet. You wanna be connected.

Whitney: 22:37

Now that you connected. Now that we you know, now that we're closer to being synced up.

Christopher: 22:41

Really Right.

Whitney: 22:42

Basically, we just wanna let you know you ain't got it. And it's that switch. Right? That requires a vulnerability in multiple ways, not just emotionally or mentally. But for me, was environmental.

Christopher: 22:56

Because Right.

Whitney: 22:56

I walked away from Everything. Steadiest income that I had. Yeah. I walked away from medical insurance during, like, the middle of a health crisis. Yeah.

Whitney: 23:07

You know? Like, I walked away from a lot. Yeah. And it it got a

Christian: 23:12

little sketchy at one point.

Whitney: 23:13

It was good, then it was sketch, and that was fine. But what I also learned is, oh, I can literally be good throughout any of that. Mhmm. Like I can't I had like three weeks where I was like, oh shit, am I gonna slip back into a depression? I haven't been depressed since my twenties.

Whitney: 23:28

Yeah. And then it was like, something went, nope. And I went, oh, yeah. I forgot. I have tools for this.

Whitney: 23:35

I don't have to do that. Right? Like, the the thing I had my last cycle of depression, I had like a moment of realization. I was like, oh, this is how we never go back. And that came back online.

Whitney: 23:43

I was like, oh, yeah. Just do that. And then once I got out of that, it got dark, but then it got light, light, bright, and now it's kinda blinding

Christopher: 23:52

Mhmm.

Whitney: 23:53

In such an amazing way. But at every turn and y'all know, I've been said it, I've been on a vulnerability journey.

Christian: 23:59

Yeah.

Whitney: 24:00

None of this happens without me being vulnerable with myself, with my emotions with myself, with my guides to be like, yeah, I built this life. I worked really hard.

Christopher: 24:11

Right.

Whitney: 24:12

I worked really hard to build this life and do all the things and for you to tell me I did it wrong.

Christian: 24:17

Yeah. No. There's gonna be some anger, some grief.

Whitney: 24:19

Yeah. Grief. Yeah. There's absolutely a grief process with that. And it's it's worth it.

Whitney: 24:27

Well, there you have it. And I think that's the thing. I I had a I had a conversation. I might have been a little high, but I had a conversation with a friend. I might have been crying at the bar.

Whitney: 24:34

Don't listen. Don't worry about me. Happy tears because I'd be waxing poetic. Alright. Put anything in me, I'm gonna wax poetic.

Whitney: 24:42

I don't know. And so what I said to her caught me off guard, which is I think what led to the tears because I wasn't expecting that to come out of my mouth, but it was genuine. And I was like, the 14 year old me, 13 year old me that prayed, god, if it doesn't get any better than this, take me out now. Had no idea it could feel like this. I had no idea life could feel this good.

Christopher: 25:05

Man.

Whitney: 25:05

I had no clue. And I was like, and I feel like I'm only scratching the surface. And that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: 25:12

But again, it doesn't happen without scary, big, stupid, ugly vulnerability.

Christopher: 25:20

It doesn't happen.

Christian: 25:21

It doesn't happen. That's that is the only way out is through.

Whitney: 25:24

Yeah. That's it. And that that is it. Like, you have to go through it and and, like, there's a trust that comes with it.

Christian: 25:31

There is so much trust.

Whitney: 25:32

Yeah. That, like, if I decide to leave what I think is comfortable, even though it's not super comfortable, but it's a familiar Way. Discomfort. Yeah. Right?

Whitney: 25:42

Like, I choose to leave my familiar discomfort to go on this journey of unknown, there is a trust that is sometimes shaky Mhmm. At least in my case

Christopher: 25:52

Yeah.

Whitney: 25:52

That it will be worth something else on the other side. But if you've never seen that side, how fucking do you know?

Christian: 26:00

There's a there's a lack of and I just got to read what is it? Rest is Resistance by Tricia Rest is Resistance by Tricia Hershey.

Whitney: 26:08

Mhmm. My Hershey? Hershey. Hershey.

Christian: 26:11

Yeah. Yeah. There's no h in the middle. Hershey. She talked about the fact that there are there just aren't a lot of role models of what, as Chris would call it, arrested life.

Christopher: 26:22

Yeah.

Whitney: 26:23

Like Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 26:23

A life that is healed and in pursuant in pursuit of the type of joy you're referring to that is like full alignment and it made me think of I'm pretty sure it's always Paul. He says something about, you know, whether in this or in that. Yes. I have learned that

Whitney: 26:45

Yes. I I talked about them in my IG stories a while back around the election.

Christopher: 26:48

I've learned to be content.

Christian: 26:49

Yes. Yeah. And I don't

Whitney: 26:51

I can't remember the exact Oh, it's like Yeah. But in plenty

Christopher: 26:54

Flipping black. In sport.

Christian: 26:56

Yeah. Yeah. And in plenty

Whitney: 26:57

of it's the right before that I can

Christian: 26:59

do all things through Christ. That's what it's leading up. Yes.

Christopher: 27:02

Right. Right. That is the actual yeah.

Whitney: 27:03

The context.

Christopher: 27:04

That's the

Christian: 27:05

context is that.

Christopher: 27:06

It's not to help you win championships.

Christian: 27:07

Sorry. Championships.

Whitney: 27:08

Come on championships.

Christian: 27:09

Championships. Tip two. Them championships. We're gonna win all the ships. No ships.

Whitney: 27:14

No ships left behind.

Christian: 27:15

No ships. But but that that is the what you're describing. Mhmm. Right? Mhmm.

Christian: 27:21

That is the framework

Whitney: 27:51

welcome to the praise break.

Christian: 27:53

Hey, you need one sometime. Take one. Take one.

Whitney: 27:56

Listen, for our listeners who do not know, that is an iconic piece of black church culture.

Christian: 28:01

Oh my god. If you don't

Whitney: 28:02

try to Google it but

Christian: 28:03

Is it Dottie Peoples? Is that who

Whitney: 28:04

it is?

Christopher: 28:05

Dottie Whinance.

Christian: 28:05

Is it Vicky? Mhmm.

Whitney: 28:07

Oh, it is Vicky.

Christian: 28:07

It's one of them. Mhmm. That's a good song.

Christopher: 28:10

Yeah. Marvin's Ex Wife.

Christian: 28:11

Oh. I didn't know about the marriage. Yeah. I knew that. Yeah.

Christian: 28:15

Knew that. Okay.

Whitney: 28:16

But you said Marvin and my brain immediately translated sap. And I was like Damn. Why not? It's not right. That's what my face was like, what?

Whitney: 28:23

Oh, no. No. There's two Marvin. What? Focus.

Whitney: 28:25

There are two Marvin's.

Christian: 28:26

I don't know why I just thought that was another

Christopher: 28:28

And they both bishops. Ain't

Whitney: 28:29

None of them are Martians. Crazy. I know. Right? Crazy.

Christopher: 28:32

Marvin the Martians.

Christian: 28:33

Marvin the Martians.

Whitney: 28:33

Both

Christopher: 28:34

of them I'm sorry. Both of them people.

Whitney: 28:37

I don't even know which one of y'all I'm laughing at. Did you say you didn't know which one of us were here?

Christian: 28:42

I don't know which one of y'all I'm laughing.

Whitney: 28:43

The answer is yes. Yes, you are.

Christian: 28:47

But, yeah, it's like the point that Paul was trying to make was not about like, oh, yeah. It it it's really more about having this disposition and this connectedness. Yes. This presence Mhmm. Yeah.

Christian: 28:59

That no matter what is happening where I am Mhmm. I can get through this. Right.

Christopher: 29:04

Right.

Christian: 29:04

But it's not

Christopher: 29:06

Because I'm aligned.

Christian: 29:07

Yes. And that's the part where it's like, I I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And so when we the way that that phrase was weaponized Mhmm. Absolutely. Right.

Christian: 29:24

The ways that that phrase was weaponized

Whitney: 29:26

That's that's when it came back to perseverance and it's like

Christian: 29:29

that's was it was a because that Mhmm. Is about effort.

Whitney: 29:35

Mhmm. That's about effort.

Christian: 29:37

That's about effort. That's about fixing. Right?

Christopher: 29:40

Right.

Christian: 29:40

If I if I feel like I can't make it, that's my fault. I ain't got enough faith. Right? Like Look at Job.

Christopher: 29:46

Not believing hard enough.

Christian: 29:48

Fucking Job.

Whitney: 29:48

Job, I literally was talking to to my friend Mel about this recently about

Christopher: 29:52

Job ain't even believe.

Christian: 29:53

The right. The book of Job is He got time.

Whitney: 29:55

Job has been weaponized so deeply. And like, I said this to Mel, I was just like, my biggest issue even as a kid was this nigga lost everything. Mhmm. And they were like, but it's cool because he got new shit. Bitch, he

Christopher: 30:09

lost children. He didn't get the same kids back.

Whitney: 30:11

Right. They didn't get resurrected. We're not talking about a grief process here. Right. Right.

Whitney: 30:15

Right. Even if, yes, you get things restored, there is still a grief process that happens. Even and even when I say I'm experiencing like this crazy joy, like that is inclusive of like Mhmm.

Christian: 30:27

Grief processes. And that's what we miss from Paul's declaration is the fact that like, he is joyful. That don't mean he like is enjoying all of it. Yeah. Right?

Christian: 30:38

And so it's like, oh, if I feel bad, again, fixing. If I feel bad, I need to control that emotion. I need to be joy. I need to show joy. I need to people don't need to know it hurts.

Christian: 30:52

People don't need to know it sucks. No. And that's not. No.

Christopher: 30:55

That's

Christian: 30:56

That's not the point.

Christopher: 30:57

That's real. Like yesterday, I was in traffic and I was very upset because I was like, I'm in traffic. I'm running late.

Whitney: 31:02

Mhmm.

Christopher: 31:03

45 sucks ass. I don't like this.

Whitney: 31:05

I hate 45.

Christian: 31:06

Oh. 45 is littlest. And my way.

Whitney: 31:10

That's why I don't live near it. I do it on purpose.

Christopher: 31:12

I really trying to as well at some point in my life. I will never

Whitney: 31:16

I wanna get away from

Christopher: 31:17

45. Get away from this fucking

Whitney: 31:18

Get away.

Christopher: 31:19

Way as being any facet of my life. Sorry. Anyway, I'm all 45, upset, frustrated, and I'm like

Whitney: 31:26

Yeah.

Christopher: 31:27

Why are you frustrated? Anything you can do about it, you know, such such such this is traffic, you

Whitney: 31:31

know. Yeah.

Christopher: 31:32

And some partner was like, you're upset.

Christian: 31:36

Yeah. Look at that.

Christopher: 31:37

You're upset.

Christian: 31:38

Yes. Look at that.

Christopher: 31:39

You're big, you know, you got good music. Yes, fine. Yeah. You know, but you're upset.

Whitney: 31:44

Mhmm.

Christopher: 31:44

It's fine. Run through that. Send traffic. Enjoy it, but you can still be upset.

Christian: 31:51

Yeah. You can be mad that traffic is

Christopher: 31:53

Right. Right.

Christian: 31:54

Right. Right. That's annoying. Right?

Christopher: 31:55

Right. Yeah. And so I just what happens is I didn't wanna get more upset

Christian: 32:00

Yes.

Christopher: 32:00

Rehearsing the thought patterns of why am I just Oh, what does that sound like?

Christian: 32:05

Dear of the emotion

Christopher: 32:07

Right.

Christian: 32:07

Not the emotion itself.

Christopher: 32:08

Right.

Christian: 32:09

Because emotions run their course. They run their course.

Christopher: 32:12

Right. It was like, okay.

Christian: 32:13

But we I'm

Christopher: 32:14

upset. That's fine. And by the time I get to work, this will be Yeah. You know, but this is is as it is. Yeah.

Christopher: 32:20

And I'm allowed to be upset

Whitney: 32:22

about And that's it. Right? Like and I think even even sitting with that emotion, it is easily traced back to wanting to control. Yeah. Right?

Whitney: 32:30

Like, if you just sit with it long enough. Right. Because again, emotions are the indicator lights. They are not the engine. Right.

Whitney: 32:37

Right? So when your check engine light comes on, the light itself isn't the problem. Right. Your engine has something going on. Mhmm.

Whitney: 32:44

So emotions are that. But we just

Christian: 32:46

be trying to turn the lights off. Right.

Whitney: 32:47

Right. And it's like, no no no. Let's go

Christopher: 32:49

Tape over the light.

Whitney: 32:50

Right. You're trying to spray it with a Sharpie. Or doing just enough to get the light to go off, which I could give an allegory about this, but I or not allegory, a little story, but I don't wanna talk about Holly in that way. Okay. Understood.

Whitney: 33:00

Yes. Holly is my car. Oh, okay. But yeah. So like this idea.

Whitney: 33:05

Right? And so we sit with that emotion long enough to say, oh, I am upset because I am trying to control this scenario. And at the end of the day, I don't have control over this. Oh my god. So that's what gives you the relief to go, okay.

Whitney: 33:19

Mhmm. I actually can't control it. I accept that. Let me turn on this good music.

Christopher: 33:24

Right.

Whitney: 33:25

And let me let this emotion finish playing out. But we're not adding fuel to it. Right. Because you've sat with it, you know where it's coming from. You've looked at the engine.

Whitney: 33:32

Mhmm. Right? You did a little

Christian: 33:34

you did a little inspection. Right.

Whitney: 33:35

And so you're like, oh, this is fine. This just needs to run this course out. Yeah. Right. And once it runs out, this light will go off.

Whitney: 33:41

Oh,

Christopher: 33:41

man. Exactly.

Christian: 33:42

Man, I have I have so many stories. That is literally life with a toddler. Yeah.

Christopher: 33:47

It's literally It's

Whitney: 33:48

literally life.

Christian: 33:48

I lost my absolute shit this week. And so my mom watches it after so I can go to the gym once a week. And typically she just goes over there eats and then we come home, right? And so I'm running through because I've gone to the gym, right? And I'm running through, I'm like, okay, it's 08:00, we can get home by 08:20.

Christian: 34:07

If I can get her in and out of the shower by 08:40, then I can get dinner and I can hopefully still be in the bed at a decent time, right? This is at her normal bed. I'm usually doing this entire process at seven, not at eight. Right? So it's all pushed back.

Christian: 34:22

And so we get home and I tell her in the car because I know she struggles with transitions. I'm like, hey, we're going straight to the shower. She's like, I wanna watch something. I was like, you can watch something when you go to bed. It's time to take a shower.

Christian: 34:34

So we walk in the door. She goes to the couch and she goes, I'm hungry. And I said, absolutely not. That was my response.

Whitney: 34:42

You'll never be hungry again.

Christian: 34:43

Absolutely not. She's like Boo,

Christopher: 34:46

what is that for you?

Christian: 34:47

I'm hungry and I lost it. I was like, move. Get, you know, get in the shower.

Whitney: 34:52

Also, Christian's version of I lost it is not That was it. Some of y'all's parents

Christian: 34:56

That was it.

Whitney: 34:57

Let me be to you.

Christian: 34:58

What you just heard?

Whitney: 34:58

That's it.

Christian: 34:59

Move. That was the end of it. Yes.

Whitney: 35:00

That's Christian losing it. That was so weird. Again. Yeah. Rage.

Whitney: 35:05

Quiet. Listen. Quiet mandated reporter here. They're good.

Christian: 35:09

That that was the extent. It was louder, but that was it. Move. Yeah. And so she walks and she's crying and I'm like, fuck.

Christian: 35:17

Is she hungry? She can't be hungry. She always eats so much at my mom's house. So much relative. Okay?

Christian: 35:23

Yeah. Like, my mom we we discussed this in in a in a bonus that y'all may get some point, but my mama had all the snacks. Okay? Yes.

Whitney: 35:32

And so since you will

Christian: 35:33

get excited about the snacks, which

Whitney: 35:35

I get. I go over there and be excited. Mhmm.

Christopher: 35:38

Okay.

Whitney: 35:38

I ain't been in my mama's house in years and I swear every time I go, I'll be excited about snacks.

Christian: 35:41

There's always something.

Whitney: 35:43

She got something to munch on.

Christian: 35:44

She has something for vegan, vegetarian, there's probably a snack for you.

Whitney: 35:47

Absolutely. I never been over there and been snackless. Never.

Christopher: 35:52

Never.

Whitney: 35:52

I might be meal less.

Christian: 35:53

I was about to say you may not have a meal to eat. But can get a vegetable in. You could get a vegetable. Get a vegetable

Whitney: 35:58

in. Right.

Christian: 35:58

But them snacks? Yeah. That's them snack. Them snacks be it. Right?

Christian: 36:02

So she

Whitney: 36:02

want y'all to know Christopher has his eyes closed. He's dreaming of these snacks. He's dreaming of his How

Christian: 36:06

you dreaming of a snack?

Christopher: 36:11

I'm a big boy. I love my snacks.

Whitney: 36:13

What can

Christopher: 36:14

I say?

Christian: 36:15

Back it up.

Christopher: 36:16

Oh, no.

Whitney: 36:17

Back it Hey, big girl.

Christian: 36:19

I know it is.

Whitney: 36:20

What was mine? Mine's from a different song. I don't remember what song is.

Christopher: 36:22

Absolutely not.

Whitney: 36:23

Oh, wait. Back it up and up

Christopher: 36:24

again. Sapphire.

Whitney: 36:25

Except a truck.

Christopher: 36:26

The

Whitney: 36:26

truck to get the snacks out.

Christopher: 36:28

Backing sapphire into this parking lot. That's what we do.

Christian: 36:30

Okay. Get that

Christopher: 36:31

part the snacks.

Christian: 36:32

But anyway, she normally eats a lot at more like, more than enough at my mom's house for me to not need to feed her when we get And so as I'm walking her to the room, she's like, what up hungry? And I

Whitney: 36:45

was like, Free chunking.

Christian: 36:46

Go go go use the bathroom. I will go call your grandmother. Uh-huh. Because she kept at it. And I'm like, fine.

Christian: 36:54

So and I gave her her she has a nighttime gummy and she's chewing it and going.

Whitney: 37:00

Right.

Christian: 37:01

Oh my god. I get my phone.

Whitney: 37:02

She's crying in the background. Drama for me.

Christian: 37:04

She's crying in the background and I'm calling my mom and I was like, ma, did she eat? And she was like, she has some macaroni and cheese and apples. And I was like, hey, when was that? And she was like, that was at I think she said it was like five and it didn't it was like 08:30. And I was like, is that all she ate?

Christian: 37:19

And she was like, yeah. She my niece had come over. So they started playing. And so all she and she didn't even have normally, she'll eat like a full bowl of macaroni cheese. She only half of it.

Christian: 37:29

Gotcha.

Christopher: 37:29

And she

Christian: 37:30

didn't eat the whole apple. She ate like four slices of the apple. So she was I was

Whitney: 37:34

like, fuck, she's hungry.

Christian: 37:36

Yeah. And so then I was like, why are you mad that your child is hungry? I was like, I'm not mad my child is hungry. And this is going on while I'm giving her a bath and working through this. Processing.

Christian: 37:48

I'm processing and I was like, I am upset because I had a plan. Now I can't fulfill my plan. My plan has been messed up. And I was like, are you really that? Because at first I was like, oh, I'm just hungry.

Christian: 38:06

And I was like, are you really that hungry? I'm like, no, I'm not really that hungry. I just I had a plan and it's been disrupted.

Whitney: 38:11

Yes.

Christian: 38:12

And I am frustrated because she is disrupting my plan.

Christopher: 38:17

Mhmm.

Christian: 38:17

As they do. I just want I just wanted to execute my plan. I was trying to get in bed for 09:30 because I was tired. Yeah. And like in that moment, I was like

Christopher: 38:29

And daddy was at work.

Christian: 38:30

So where's the

Christopher: 38:33

father? At work.

Christian: 38:34

At work. He don't get off he didn't get off till later and he wasn't gonna be home for another two hours. Right. Don't don't Just

Whitney: 38:40

the two of them duking it out.

Christopher: 38:41

Right. Right.

Christian: 38:42

Yeah. Tuesday to Thursday, we gotta figure it out. And the only time it's a problem is Wednesdays because I go to the gym. Anyway, and so I'm like, and this might be moving into our next segment. That's okay.

Christian: 38:55

My first thought is, okay. Well, Wednesday night gym is just not gonna work. Right? This because this is this happened the week before something similar. And I was like, this is Wednesday night gym is just not gonna work.

Christopher: 39:06

Mhmm. That's what's

Christian: 39:07

I'll have to and I told him that when he got home. I I was like, hey, this is too much. It's too much drama. Like, I feel I I feel compelled to try to control the schedule more rigidly Mhmm. Because there's so much less time available for just me at night.

Christian: 39:23

Yeah. Right? And he's like, well, maybe this and he gives me a couple of suggestions. And it occurred to me in that moment, I was like, I never thought about asking anybody to help me fix this. I was just ready to give it up.

Whitney: 39:43

Yeah. I was

Christopher: 39:44

like, no. No. We're not gonna give it up.

Whitney: 39:46

That would require vulnerability to say, hey, I'm struggling to figure this out.

Christian: 39:51

Right. And so instead of me instead instead

Christopher: 39:55

of I heard that when she said, I don't wanna do it no more. I was like, no, we're not gonna do that.

Whitney: 39:59

Right. This is your you time. What the fuck are you talking about?

Christian: 40:01

Right. It's my it's my it's my one night during the work week

Whitney: 40:05

Yeah.

Christian: 40:05

That I'm not, like that I get to go do something besides just mom.

Whitney: 40:10

Yeah. Right? Mhmm.

Christian: 40:11

Mom and as I told who did I tell mom and housewench? Oh, god. Mean, you know, laundry and I'm

Whitney: 40:18

so sorry.

Christian: 40:23

I mean, and cooking and tidying and bathing the kids and putting them to bed. Mom and housewench, that's kinda how I be feeling. I get to do something else.

Christopher: 40:34

I'll be helping that.

Whitney: 40:36

I was like, I was also just saying, but he's not there.

Christian: 40:39

It's not that he doesn't do anything. That's not what this is

Christopher: 40:41

about. Just trying add context to the new listeners.

Christian: 40:44

That's not the point. Right. The point is not about what Chris does or doesn't do. It's about like the assignment that I have Mhmm. When I'm at home on a weeknight.

Christian: 40:54

Yeah. That's what it's about. Regardless of how much he does. And Chris does all the dishes before y'all get any kind of weird ideas.

Whitney: 41:00

Yes. There's equity here.

Christian: 41:02

He does all the dishes. He'd be taking out the trash and sweeping the floors. So it's not like he ate tea. Don't you do laundry sometimes? We switch.

Christian: 41:07

Oh, damn. We switch.

Whitney: 41:09

Damn. That's why okay. Yeah. We switched. You get one task and now you a wench.

Whitney: 41:13

Wow. That's crazy.

Christian: 41:15

The point was that instead of trying to move through

Whitney: 41:20

Mhmm.

Christian: 41:20

And like I took the emotion and was like, I need to get rid of it.

Christopher: 41:23

Yeah. Right.

Christian: 41:24

That was my that was my thought. I need to get rid of this emotion and the way to get rid of this emotion is to stop doing the thing that I wanna do. Yeah. That's immediately where my brain went. Right?

Whitney: 41:33

Yeah.

Christian: 41:34

And, you know, part of the reason for that and this is just this is this is a parent thing, I think, and it's probably a lot of caregiver thing, but I I can only I am the parent and I didn't feel it when I wasn't the parent. I can say that. I can say that. I feel it now and I did not feel it then.

Whitney: 41:51

This is new.

Christian: 41:52

I'm like, I don't want to cause her damage Absolutely. Because my emotions are out of control and I'm lashing out. I don't think that's a

Whitney: 42:01

parent thing.

Christian: 42:02

But that's what I'm That's how I feel about people. But I don't be spending enough time with other people's kids for that. No. Not kids.

Whitney: 42:09

People. People.

Christian: 42:10

What? That's how I like being Chris.

Whitney: 42:13

Any any less of a bitch that you perceive me as now is because of that. Look.

Christian: 42:17

Me and Chris have had this discussion, which is no bueno. However, I put so much more effort into not lashing out at Chris than I do into not lashing out in Sydney.

Whitney: 42:27

Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 42:29

It is it's a socialization thing. For whatever reason, my brain goes, you can yell at the tiny person, not the big one.

Christopher: 42:35

And yeah. And I and I will

Whitney: 42:37

Well, one is riskier.

Christopher: 42:37

And while I don't like being yelled is

Whitney: 42:40

riskier. Yeah. Because like Right. Like, if he leaves Yeah. Right?

Whitney: 42:44

Now you're a single parent, both of you. You're good. Right? And now we're splitting incomes. Now we're splitting household.

Whitney: 42:49

It's more risky. Sydney, what she gonna I'm not not don't do it. But like But what she gonna do? What's the consequence other than you've damaged her?

Christopher: 42:56

Right.

Whitney: 42:56

Which I think is huge. Wait. Yes. Massive. But like in terms of risk of like immediate survival

Christian: 43:03

And pro and like yeah.

Whitney: 43:04

No. It's it's riskier.

Christopher: 43:05

It is riskier.

Whitney: 43:07

That's And I don't think that's a conscious thing that we talk about, but, like No. That's why, like Right. And even not only is it financially and, like, environmentally risky, it is also emotionally risky. Yes.

Christian: 43:19

Y'all are

Whitney: 43:19

in an intimate partnership. Right? Right. And then if you lash out at him and then he leaves because somehow you are, I'm using air quotes, deficient. Right.

Whitney: 43:28

Right? Like, or you've done something wrong, now that feeds a narrative. Right? Right. Whatever the narrative is.

Whitney: 43:34

And so it's it's risky on all fronts.

Christian: 43:36

Right. Yeah. No. I get you have you have made a valid point.

Whitney: 43:39

Thanks. I do that sometimes.

Christian: 43:40

And I appreciate you making that point because it makes me feel like less of an asshole to my kid. But I also wanna put a similar amount of energy into treating her best.

Whitney: 43:48

Agreed. Both and. Both and. Yeah. So she doesn't, like, end up being an asshole.

Whitney: 43:53

Preferably. You know? Yeah. So, like, when we She's already an Aries. Listen.

Whitney: 43:57

We're already fighting against the the opponents.

Christopher: 43:59

She got two Aries in there.

Whitney: 44:01

I know. And I you know what?

Christopher: 44:02

On others on either side of it.

Whitney: 44:04

God really is has called you one of his strongest. Truly has. Fortunately, you're not like a painful Aries. You're not you you can get Aries y at times.

Christopher: 44:17

Yeah.

Whitney: 44:18

But you're not so obstinate that it is like Oh, he's not. Like you're not a toxic Aries.

Christopher: 44:22

No. Not obstinate now. Now I Chris is

Christian: 44:24

not obstinate at all.

Christopher: 44:25

No. I used to be obstinate.

Whitney: 44:26

Well, that was not because you were an Aries.

Christian: 44:28

I mean, you were also younger. I feel like obstinate what did they say? Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. I think children Yeah. They be pushing boundaries all the damn time.

Christopher: 44:36

Right.

Christian: 44:37

So you know, you may have you met Aries adults? Some of them?

Whitney: 44:40

Not all of y'all. Some of y'all are lovely people. I'm not saying this. I'm sure if somebody out here is an Aries and it's like, oh, she's going in. I'm not.

Whitney: 44:45

Y'all are I have some good Aries people that I know they are not really in my circle. However except Chris.

Christopher: 44:51

Yeah. My yeah. My toxic trait is is is in a way controlling.

Christian: 44:56

Mhmm. Alright. I got that one too.

Christopher: 44:58

I remember one time.

Christian: 44:59

Maybe that's why don't mind.

Christopher: 45:00

Me and then she who

Whitney: 45:01

You got a strong She

Christopher: 45:02

will not be named.

Whitney: 45:03

We know.

Christopher: 45:04

We were trying I was trying to get out of

Christian: 45:07

Oh, yeah. I remember

Christopher: 45:07

the story. Out of the house so

Whitney: 45:09

we can go

Christopher: 45:09

to church. Mhmm. And she's doing all this stuff and what

Christian: 45:13

Wait.

Whitney: 45:13

Who's this?

Christian: 45:13

One of the Alexis.

Whitney: 45:14

Got you. Her. I'm back.

Christopher: 45:16

And so she's doing this and then she

Christian: 45:18

just She's on the computer going

Christopher: 45:19

She's the computer trying to shut it down. And I was just like, you know, just gonna press and hold the power button and it'll shut off.

Christian: 45:27

We can go.

Christopher: 45:27

And now we can go. Because I've been telling you.

Whitney: 45:30

That nigga wanna fight. Nigga wanna go. Because listen, the way you listen, hold up. Yeah. Now I'm a Libra.

Christopher: 45:38

I believe in peace,

Whitney: 45:38

but I also believe in justice, which means inherently in my soul or maybe not in my soul. Deep in my personality, I'm a vindictive queen. And what that would have meant

Christopher: 45:49

And I was like.

Whitney: 45:50

Because also Aries and Libra are opposite signs. They're sister signs. And so what would happen? You would have did that and I promptly would have went back, got undressed

Christian: 45:57

And laid back in the bed.

Whitney: 45:59

Absolutely. Been like, have a good time. Yeah. What you just told me is you don't wanna go no fucking weird with me ever.

Christian: 46:04

Not me.

Whitney: 46:06

Go to church. You know what? I think you should go pray about this.

Christopher: 46:09

Yeah. Well, see, that was it was the thing because I got that point because I was like, you know, you don't care about me or my time because we've got to your church

Christian: 46:17

Mhmm.

Christopher: 46:18

Where we supposed to get to. And then now when it's time to transition to my

Whitney: 46:22

church Yeah. I had to a

Christian: 46:23

little chip on the shoulder.

Christopher: 46:24

I had a little chip on and that that only again, that a part of me only comes out when, again Absolutely.

Whitney: 46:30

I'm We feel wrong.

Christopher: 46:31

I feel wrong. Yeah. And so

Whitney: 46:33

That's true for most of us.

Christopher: 46:34

Alright. Let me help you.

Whitney: 46:35

Right. That's what we got.

Christian: 46:36

Yeah. Help. Uh-huh.

Whitney: 46:37

Not you fixing it.

Christian: 46:40

I'm a

Whitney: 46:40

fix But you know what? Hot bar. I just realized my country ass family, like my granny and my big mom used to say, you know what? I got a good mind to fix him. I got a good mind to fix

Christian: 46:53

and it's like, no. Wait a minute.

Whitney: 46:55

That's literal. I thought it was just like a country thing. Wait. What? Yeah.

Whitney: 46:58

It's like

Christopher: 46:59

Oh, yeah.

Whitney: 46:59

I got a good mind to fix him. Good. Like, if you if you're gonna do something

Christian: 47:02

to to

Whitney: 47:03

prove a point. Yeah. Or, like, to get that person together because you have perceived that they have wronged you, you're fix them right up.

Christian: 47:10

Oh. Uh-huh.

Whitney: 47:11

And I was just it never occurred to me that, like, oh, no. You're you're you're fixing your feeling. That's what's happening. You feel wrong and you're like, oh, I'm about to write this.

Christian: 47:21

I can

Whitney: 47:21

I can I'm about to rebalance this motherfucking scheme?

Christian: 47:23

I can solve this problem.

Christopher: 47:25

Yes. Yeah. But it was

Christian: 47:26

This could be solved.

Christopher: 47:27

Probably like the one the thing I just remember, I was just like, you know, this is this is not great. Yeah. I I thought I had no

Whitney: 47:32

That's a but listen, I can't I can't talk because young Whitney Oh. Hey.

Christopher: 47:38

Young Sheldon Young Whitney.

Whitney: 47:39

Yay. Young everybody. Young Whitney is Yeah. Listen, very loving. Don't cross her.

Whitney: 47:45

Don't cross listen, depending on the day, I I do pretty good these days because I see the humanity.

Christopher: 47:50

Yeah. Yeah. I and I have to and I've reeled that in learning how to reel it even with Sydney. Yeah. You know, there are certain, you know, certain things I I try to do and things like that and also some and I will call it parental override.

Christopher: 48:03

Yeah. So now You're not doing what I want you to do. Yeah. It's override.

Whitney: 48:08

Okay. So the book.

Christopher: 48:09

So go ahead.

Whitney: 48:10

Sorry. I'm not gonna grab it. I I was about to grab it. So one of the things he talks about is Gary's in car, the scene of the soul. Of the things he talks about is like when you're a five sensory human being, you perceive power as external versus being a multisensory human being that actually understands that power is completely internal.

Whitney: 48:28

And so even thinking about this. Right? Like, sometimes you action wise, you have to parental overwrite, like, don't you run your ass in the street? Yeah. Right?

Whitney: 48:35

Like, there are certain things action wise. But, like, in terms of controlling emotions

Christian: 48:39

Oh, yeah.

Whitney: 48:39

Situations. It's like, no no no. Then you've perceived like a power imbalance and now I'm in a power struggle with a fucking four year old or almost four year old. How did you get there? The only way to get there is if you perceive if you're perceiving the power as external.

Christopher: 48:52

Yeah.

Whitney: 48:53

Like, she is now taking my power away Right. To have the schedule that I want.

Christopher: 48:58

Right.

Whitney: 48:59

And it's like, no no no. That power is actually internal because you made that up. And so is there another way, as you have explored, is there another way to actually get all these needs met differently?

Christian: 49:09

Yeah. And I mean,

Christopher: 49:10

that Crazy because we

Whitney: 49:11

And that's the internal power.

Christopher: 49:13

Right. And it's crazy because we now cross into that threshold of reconciling harm from caregivers.

Christian: 49:19

Yeah. Right. So when you're talking about that. Like, trying not to make our child feel whatever or induce, you know, dramatics, whatever. I'm trying to think of the right way to say this.

Christian: 49:36

Right? So I don't wanna scare my kid. Yeah.

Whitney: 49:38

That's not about the street. I fully commit to scaring Sydney about cars

Christian: 49:42

in the road. Like Likewise. But like Yeah.

Christopher: 49:45

Knives.

Christian: 49:46

Yeah. I wanna teach her to use the knives. Right.

Whitney: 49:49

Yes. To wield that.

Christian: 49:49

But cars in the street

Christopher: 49:51

Cars

Christian: 49:51

in in You

Whitney: 49:51

little, we can't see you.

Christopher: 49:53

That's Right.

Christian: 49:53

And them people be

Whitney: 49:54

That has been one of my biggest arguments with Sydney.

Christian: 49:57

Yeah. Same. She's she's better about it fucking street. Is when we cross the street, you hold my hand. Yes.

Whitney: 50:01

That's not an option. That was when we had the argument because she snatched her hand.

Christian: 50:05

And she doesn't. She's done it but she's done it.

Whitney: 50:07

And I was like

Christian: 50:07

Every time she did it to you, she did it to me.

Whitney: 50:09

And I was like, I'm force drunk snatcher. Listen. And so we crossed and I was like, Whitney, you gotta pull it together right now. She is three. You are not about to enter a power struggle with a three year old.

Christian: 50:18

Right. And so like like, Don't

Christopher: 50:20

pull it in. That's the street.

Whitney: 50:22

Yeah. I mean, we got we got out of the street.

Christopher: 50:24

Okay.

Whitney: 50:25

But my attitude was not great.

Christian: 50:27

Oh. But we made it.

Whitney: 50:28

And so once we got to the side, I collected my attitude.

Christopher: 50:31

Gotcha. I understand. I understand.

Whitney: 50:32

And was like, hey, man. I got down low, and then I needed help getting up. Thank god my sibling was there. But I got down low, we had a conversation Right.

Christian: 50:40

Mhmm. About why we don't do that.

Whitney: 50:41

Why we don't do that and, like, I understand that you're upset with me right now and you totally get to do that.

Christian: 50:46

You can be upset if I hold my hand while we walk

Whitney: 50:48

across the street. Correct. You get to be upset. I'm okay with you being mad at me. I don't love you any less.

Christian: 50:51

So I mean, like, that's the part of, like, trying not to cause harm. Right.

Whitney: 50:55

Right.

Christian: 50:56

But a lot of us have already had harms done upon us by Especially

Whitney: 51:00

at our big ages? I mean,

Christian: 51:02

had harms, you know, imparted upon us by those who were in charge of taking care. Absolutely. And I'm sure there are lot of people who are listening who who are in the exact same situation. Absolutely. So how do we go about, like, reconciling that?

Christian: 51:16

I mean, especially if there's I think it's one thing when I can, like, go to Sydney and apologize for a thing. Yes. You

Christopher: 51:21

know? Right.

Christian: 51:22

But it's like parents of 40 year olds probably ain't coming and asking for apologies.

Christopher: 51:27

Right. Especially when they thought they were right and

Christian: 51:29

still Assuming they're still with us.

Whitney: 51:31

I was like, that's not my mama and I'm grateful. Right? Got other things

Christian: 51:35

but Right. They may or may not.

Christopher: 51:37

Mhmm.

Christian: 51:38

Even if they do, the harm is still It's done. Done. Right. Now, what do we

Whitney: 51:43

Well, how do we do it? Right? What do do? And so it's interesting. I always say that like, oh, yeah, my mom is quick to apologize.

Whitney: 51:48

My mom's so quick to apologize. What's slower is change behavior. Mhmm. Which is led to my whole thing of like, oh, I trust what you do, not what you say.

Christopher: 51:56

Right.

Whitney: 51:56

That's I've been that way my whole life, like to the point where I used to hate words of affirmation because I'd be like, shut up.

Christian: 52:00

Right. Don't believe you.

Whitney: 52:02

I don't believe a thing you say, do it. I have grown out of that. Thank goodness.

Christopher: 52:05

But Yeah. Now my mom's like that. Well, it's like that apology is is wasteful. And that she did it to the extent that she didn't apologize for anything.

Christian: 52:11

That doesn't What do

Christopher: 52:13

you mean? She felt like

Christian: 52:14

She felt like it was pointless to Oh.

Whitney: 52:16

Yeah. No.

Christopher: 52:17

And now she didn't see in maybe one or two times. She may have apologized, but I don't remember them. I'm just gonna give her that ground for that. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher: 52:26

Yeah. Her philosophy on apology. Right.

Christian: 52:28

Her general philosophy on apology.

Christopher: 52:29

General philosophy on apology was very much

Christian: 52:32

They weren't worth anything.

Christopher: 52:33

Oh. It it yeah. They're not worth anything because.

Whitney: 52:36

Mhmm. I had a friend say that

Christopher: 52:37

to you. Yeah.

Whitney: 52:37

A friend who has since come back

Christopher: 52:39

to would have loved it especially when times when you were fucking being fucking mean to me for no reason.

Whitney: 52:43

Right. Like, why were you doing that? No.

Christopher: 52:44

Appreciated that.

Whitney: 52:45

That's really I had a friend say that because I'm I'm very quick to apologize. Yeah. Right? And it's not just like, oh, I wanna fix it, which I had somebody say to me once. I'm like, you just wanna fix it.

Whitney: 52:53

I was like, no. No. I believe in taking accountability. And so for me, the first step is saying like, oh, I might not have intended that,

Christian: 52:59

but I see, like Right.

Whitney: 53:00

I see what you're saying. I see the impact of it. I apologize. Like and then can we work from there? Because like, for me, unless you genuinely apologize

Christian: 53:08

What's the point?

Whitney: 53:09

What's the conversation?

Christian: 53:10

Yeah. Right.

Christopher: 53:11

No. It's

Whitney: 53:11

Then we just go back and forth. Ain't no time

Christopher: 53:13

for Exactly. I got like that at one point in my relationship with God and we would just I would be like, you know, doing the same thing over and over again or wrestling with my humanity

Whitney: 53:23

Yes. Yes.

Christopher: 53:23

In certain ways.

Christian: 53:24

Yes.

Christopher: 53:24

And feeling like I needed to repent or ask God forgiveness. Yeah. And at some point, was like, you know what, God? I'm I don't think I'm done with this.

Whitney: 53:32

Right.

Christopher: 53:32

And I'm just I'm not

Christian: 53:34

I'm gonna stop apologizing now.

Christopher: 53:35

Stop apologizing. Yeah. I mean, because like this whole grieving and I'm tired of it. Right. You're not tired?

Christian: 53:41

Right. Do you wanna hear this again? You

Christopher: 53:43

don't yeah.

Christian: 53:43

Yeah. You need my reheated hand prayer.

Christopher: 53:46

When I'm ready to let this go right. When I'm ready to let this go

Whitney: 53:49

We'll talk.

Christopher: 53:50

On the path.

Whitney: 53:50

Yeah. I'll come back. But right now

Christopher: 53:52

You know.

Christian: 53:52

Yeah. Not sorry.

Christopher: 53:53

I'm not gonna do repeat prayers because I'm not a compulsive person. I don't need I don't need to do compulsory behavior to to function.

Christian: 53:59

Yeah. Right.

Christopher: 54:00

So I was like, you know, this this is old.

Whitney: 54:03

Right. And I We're

Christopher: 54:04

like, how many years we've been at this? This is old

Whitney: 54:06

now. And I think that's it. And so, like, for me, while I value apologies Mhmm. I deeply value apologies. It it's one of those things, like, if there is no change behavior

Christian: 54:15

Mhmm.

Whitney: 54:16

Yeah, you got two times. And that's that's old Whitney. You might got one. Okay? Because I I'm, you know, grace.

Whitney: 54:22

Yeah. I've I've been known for being too gracious. I I went from being not gracious at all to a little too gracious sometimes. And I'm like, no, if we if

Christian: 54:29

we clear, you get one. Right.

Whitney: 54:31

You get one and then the conversation depending on the value of the relationship, it's going to shift. Yeah.

Christian: 54:37

Mhmm.

Whitney: 54:37

Right? Absolutely. It is either gonna go deeper and we're gonna have to get into what the fuck is really going on.

Christian: 54:42

Right.

Whitney: 54:43

And then behavior still gotta change. At some point, it's if the behavior don't change, the relationship will because boundaries. Oh. That's one thing my mom was mom was like, you're so good with boundaries and she knows this because she's been on the receiving end of so many of them.

Christian: 54:58

So that sounds like a big part of It is. Is. Setting some boundaries.

Whitney: 55:02

So this is and I will walk you through my journey with this because, yeah, I got two parents. I know we all do.

Christian: 55:11

That's kinda how genetics work.

Whitney: 55:12

You know, I have two biological parents and one of them is worse than the other. And my mama is by far the least problematic of my two parents.

Christian: 55:20

But

Whitney: 55:20

I say by far and she least problematic. And so a lot of so basically, have situations where and my my dad has passed. And so I have situations where there are things with a person like you could never talk to about because they would scapegoat God and be like, well, that's under the blood of Jesus. I don't have to apologize for these big traumatic things you should probably be in jail for. Like, things because that's under the blood of Jesus.

Whitney: 55:48

Don't have to talk about that.

Christian: 55:48

Who does that sound like?

Christopher: 55:50

Jesus Christ.

Christian: 55:50

My daddy? I Oh, okay. Thank

Whitney: 55:54

you. So I was just like, him. Boy,

Christian: 55:56

no. But

Whitney: 55:58

That's my because that's my closest point of reference. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 56:00

Yeah. No. I got you.

Whitney: 56:00

So this parent that refuses to apologize. Yeah. And then I have a parent who over apologizes but doesn't have enough fortitude to, like, change behavior.

Christian: 56:10

Yeah.

Whitney: 56:11

And so the parent that never apologized was, I will say, the easiest and it's still the easiest to contend with mentally and emotionally. Because it's like, you are who you are. Yeah. And now that you're dead, there is no change. Right?

Whitney: 56:24

And so, like or there's we're not changing the relationship on this side, like Yeah. On the earthly plane

Christopher: 56:29

this Right.

Whitney: 56:30

Right. And so I get to choose my relationship to you in death. Right. Because you can't rebut me. And that's my favorite part.

Whitney: 56:37

That is my favorite part of my dad being dead. Dead dad club, d d c holding it on, holding it down. Is that like, you what you gonna do, argue?

Christian: 56:43

No. Not anymore.

Christopher: 56:44

You gonna You wanna argue?

Whitney: 56:46

I can't I'm not arguing with you. You dead. You big dead. I'm not

Christopher: 56:52

arguing with you.

Whitney: 56:53

I'm happy. Wow. Leave me alone. But I will say because I'm woo woo, my dad is

Christopher: 57:02

for a medium that's rich. It

Whitney: 57:03

is literally. So we we have actually had to do a lot of work. Right?

Christian: 57:08

But I

Whitney: 57:08

ain't gotta hear your voice and you can't bear at me And so which that was a real happy dance because like also my granny already says she's stronger than you. So There

Christopher: 57:17

you go.

Christian: 57:18

There we go. Like my granny.

Whitney: 57:19

But like the boundaries when he was alive that I set with him were a lot easier because it's like, y'all remember that episode of Fresh Prince with Tyre Banks and Fresh Prince arguing? Mhmm. You ain't never gonna change. Oh, no. I'm wait.

Whitney: 57:33

Oh, yes. I am. Oh, no. You're not. Right?

Whitney: 57:35

That is that. And so it's like, instead of doing that stupid ass argument with you.

Christopher: 57:39

Mhmm.

Whitney: 57:40

Like, I'm just not. And so like before my dad got sick, I had gone no contact. Right. Mhmm. That was hard for my mom because they were still married and she's they still live together at some point.

Whitney: 57:54

And then they didn't and then they did again and that was not my business because I didn't live there and no longer did my sibling. And so I was like, y'all can duke it out. I'm a be over here at my house where the bills are paid in not y'all's name. And you know who won't be here?

Christopher: 58:08

Him. Mhmm.

Whitney: 58:10

Not invited. Not invited. And literally, this was my concession. I was like, well, mama because my mama would come and spend holidays because my sibling would come home and spend holidays from college. Big gap.

Whitney: 58:18

Yeah. Yeah. And so I remember the first year. Think this was the year after I got married. The year I got married.

Whitney: 58:24

Mhmm. I had this was the year I I laid down the rule. And I had already laid it down for my personal home, but like for Yeah. My our family home, I was like, this is going to carry. And I had talked to my ex husband about it, my husband at the

Christopher: 58:37

time Mhmm.

Whitney: 58:37

About it. He was like, that actually makes me feel a lot safer because I don't I I was really trying to figure out how I was gonna handle the volatility

Christian: 58:44

Yeah.

Whitney: 58:45

Of like y'all situation. Yeah. And I was like, you won't because I'm not I'm not doing you're not I'm not about to nigga. I ain't coming back. Right.

Whitney: 58:57

And so I remember telling my mom, I was like, he's not welcomed here. My concession, you can take him a plate.

Christopher: 59:03

There you go.

Whitney: 59:04

But he is not welcomed here. He can't come in my space. He cannot come to my house. So at some point on Thanksgiving, my dad drove trucks. And so at some point on Thanksgiving, my mom literally is on the phone with this man, which I was like, that feel like he in my house.

Whitney: 59:16

I can't control even though I pay the phone bill

Christopher: 59:18

Mhmm.

Whitney: 59:19

I can't control this because it's her phone. Right?

Christopher: 59:21

Right.

Whitney: 59:22

Now I could shut it off temporarily, but I'm not I'm petty or anything. Girl Right. I consider these things, but I don't do them. You know? Right.

Whitney: 59:29

The petty is in me.

Christopher: 59:31

So you gotta let these thoughts pass.

Whitney: 59:33

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So Bob was just like, okay. And then she was like, yeah.

Whitney: 59:36

Yeah. She put them on speakerphone. Me, well, I'm a go upstairs. I actually got some shedding to do up there anyway. Yeah.

Whitney: 59:41

Yeah. Before other people come. And so then she was like she literally was just like, oh, yeah. I came back. She was like, yeah.

Whitney: 59:47

Let me get the address from Whitney. I'm a send it to you.

Christopher: 59:49

Oh, no.

Christian: 59:49

Absolutely not.

Whitney: 59:50

And I looked at her and I said, you will not be doing that. And she was like, what? And I was like, I have already made this clear with you.

Christian: 59:58

He is not invited.

Whitney: 59:59

He is not welcomed in his home. Mhmm. And so if you wanna go, you can go.

Christian: 01:00:03

But he can't come here.

Whitney: 01:00:05

Period. Mhmm. And then she got her feelings, that's not my business. Because this has been from this is like this is a year in progress already. Right.

Christopher: 01:00:14

Right.

Whitney: 01:00:14

This ain't new. Exactly. So why did you think because I got married, it was gonna shit was gonna change. Yeah. He was at the wedding.

Whitney: 01:00:20

Cool.

Christopher: 01:00:21

Right.

Christian: 01:00:21

He

Whitney: 01:00:21

was. You're not he both my parents walked me down the aisle. Did.

Christian: 01:00:24

It was a

Whitney: 01:00:24

really nice picture. You know? At that point, I don't think we were no contact. We were less contact. But then he I don't know.

Whitney: 01:00:31

He started being nicer when he was like, oh, you're gonna be another man's problem? Yeah. Yeah. It was my dad was a piece of work.

Christopher: 01:00:36

He said he said that to you?

Whitney: 01:00:38

No. But that was that was the energy. That was absolutely like my dad did not even call to check on me until I got married.

Christopher: 01:00:43

Oh, wow.

Whitney: 01:00:44

Like, I heard from this nigga on my birthday, which is five days after his. It's the only reason why he remembered. And so yeah. And so, like, that was easy to put down these boundaries. Right?

Whitney: 01:00:54

Because it was just like, there's not anything I remember telling my mom this. Was like, I have tried everything in my power. Even after I got married, there was a period where we're like, okay. Well, we can talk. We don't have to be around each other, we're gonna we could try this reconciliation thing.

Whitney: 01:01:07

And we would talk every so often. It would be awkward. There was one moment where we had, like, a genuine conversation. I was like, wow. I'm really sad for you.

Whitney: 01:01:14

Right? But I could see him, I think, for the first time or for like second time. And yeah. So we would try that, but it was just like, yeah. But like, you you got non act right in your spirit and I don't know what's gonna set it off.

Whitney: 01:01:28

Like You got mad. Yeah. He got mad issues.

Christian: 01:01:31

He never worked misuse. Yeah. Every opportunity to right your wrong.

Whitney: 01:01:36

That part literally calls That's my dad. And so that's did they write it about him? Anyway. Right. And so like that that was simple.

Whitney: 01:01:45

Right? And I think because we we both had static.

Christian: 01:01:48

It was it was a lot more clear and clean-cut Yeah. You to figure out how to dice it

Whitney: 01:01:52

up. Exactly. And he didn't really force the issue because at the end of the day, he felt how he felt. Right? Right.

Whitney: 01:01:57

My mom Right. Is different because it's a complicated situation. Yeah. Right? It's it feels like it's less complicated the older I get.

Whitney: 01:02:06

But in my early twenties you should even in my early thirties. It was really complicated because it was like, you are harmful and loving.

Christian: 01:02:13

What do

Whitney: 01:02:13

I do with And I think that's the case for a lot of parents.

Christian: 01:02:17

Think that's probably more the most common. Yeah. Yeah. It's that combination. It's not ambivalence.

Christopher: 01:02:22

Oh, okay.

Whitney: 01:02:22

My mom's is not ambivalent.

Christian: 01:02:23

Oh, no. It is. I'm very concerned.

Christopher: 01:02:24

No. I'm talking about or I guess talking about having mixed feelings.

Whitney: 01:02:28

It's mixed feelings, but that's different than ambivalence.

Christian: 01:02:30

Yeah. Mixed mixed emotions. Yes.

Whitney: 01:02:32

That's what

Christian: 01:02:32

you meant.

Whitney: 01:02:33

Conflicting Right. Emotions. Right?

Christopher: 01:02:34

Emotions.

Whitney: 01:02:35

And so there are moments where I've had to put boundaries on particular I haven't talked about this. Topics. Particular topics Yeah. With my mom Or particular, like, okay. This is how much time we can spend together before this shit goes left.

Whitney: 01:02:48

Right? Or before you start projecting.

Christopher: 01:02:52

Wow.

Whitney: 01:02:52

Or before I'm gonna get irate.

Christian: 01:02:54

So this is a here's oh, I was gonna ask a question.

Christopher: 01:02:57

Go ahead.

Christian: 01:02:58

So how did you figure out like what the topic was or what the time is? You know what I'm saying? Like how I'm I'm I'm I'm sure it's just like a process of a this keeps happening type thing or Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:03:08

It's it's it's when you walk away, your chest is tight. Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:03:12

Yeah. I know what you're talking about.

Whitney: 01:03:14

You know, like anything you you feel it. This is this is not a complicated thing. Yeah. When some shit sucks

Christian: 01:03:20

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:03:20

You feel it in your body wherever you may feel it. And so if I every time like I we talk about a particular thing Yeah. You committed to not understanding Yeah. And I'm I feel like I'm like either about to lose it or yell or whatever Right. Or we get into a screaming match.

Christopher: 01:03:38

Oh, for me. Or we

Whitney: 01:03:39

get to crying, which my mom will be weaponized in tears.

Christopher: 01:03:41

The the heat rises up on the back of my neck.

Whitney: 01:03:44

You know, and for me, I can feel my shoulders crawl up. So my chest gets tight, my shoulders get

Christian: 01:03:49

closer to my earlobes. Which they've got a distance to go.

Whitney: 01:03:52

You know, wow. Are you calling me a giraffe?

Christian: 01:03:54

I am not. You have a great neck.

Christopher: 01:03:55

You have a graceful neck.

Christian: 01:03:56

You can wear amazing earrings. I can't. I don't. I I can't. They'd be touching my shoulders and I hate it.

Whitney: 01:04:03

Oh, that's fair.

Christian: 01:04:04

I hate the feeling of earrings touching my shoulders. Like, it's like they're dragging.

Whitney: 01:04:09

I kinda like it. It tickles a little. Oh. Yeah. Back when I used to wear big danglies, but I stopped wearing them because they got caught in my hair.

Christopher: 01:04:17

So I

Christian: 01:04:17

feel Well, you ain't got to worry about that

Whitney: 01:04:18

no more. Yeah. But I don't got them

Christopher: 01:04:19

no more.

Christian: 01:04:19

Oh, fair.

Whitney: 01:04:20

Yeah. I rid of them because they used

Christian: 01:04:21

I got some big danglies. I don't well,

Whitney: 01:04:23

because they they touch my shoulders. I have a couple of danglies that are not that, like, long enough to touch me anyway. But yeah. And so, like, when you feel the tension or the discomfort in your own person Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:04:34

Then it's like, oh, there is something here.

Christian: 01:04:37

Right.

Whitney: 01:04:38

Sometimes that happens even and I think for me, when it really got loud was when I decided I was there were parts of myself the first round of therapy in my twenties. Right? When I was like, oh, there are some narratives that are not serving me. Mhmm. And when I look back over my

Christian: 01:04:53

life And I

Whitney: 01:04:54

think over. This belong to my parents' doorstep.

Christopher: 01:04:59

This is

Christian: 01:05:00

they shit.

Whitney: 01:05:00

Yeah. Right? And so it's like, no. No. No.

Whitney: 01:05:03

I need a boundary around these things because you the problem. Yeah. Right? Like and while I'm sorting this out, I can't have you I cannot

Christian: 01:05:13

I I can't have you in

Whitney: 01:05:14

my mouth. Detox myself while you're feeding me poison. Yeah. Not real. God.

Christian: 01:05:18

Say that again.

Christopher: 01:05:19

I forget God on today.

Christian: 01:05:20

You don't. I'll say it.

Christopher: 01:05:22

Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm not

Christian: 01:05:23

You can't detox while somebody's feeding you poison. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:05:25

Jesus. You can't. That is exactly why

Christian: 01:05:29

That's how you heal right

Christopher: 01:05:30

no contact with my mom Yeah. At the end of it all, until she died Mhmm. Because of the fact I was like, you know what? I'm in a very vulnerable space in my life between my twenties and 20 and thirties. And I was like, I'm still trying to figure out me right now and get myself on our and and I can't do that while you doing stuff that pulls me back into

Whitney: 01:05:56

Exactly.

Christopher: 01:05:56

A sense of self that is distorted and disjoint because Uh-huh. I'm still trying to figure out me. Yep. And I'm still trying to live by, you know, principles at the time that were being handed to me in a way that are you know, give me life Yeah. And build up my sense of self.

Whitney: 01:06:14

Right.

Christopher: 01:06:15

This is and so, yeah, it was hard. Yeah. But for me, especially at that time, what I needed to do for certain family members at the time made it clear to me that this is what needed to happen.

Whitney: 01:06:26

Mhmm. Because I

Christopher: 01:06:26

can't do that without it. You've you've positioned yourself between me and other family members in a way that made me automatically choose these people.

Whitney: 01:06:35

Mhmm. Yes.

Christopher: 01:06:35

And in doing so, I'm also choosing me.

Whitney: 01:06:38

Right.

Christopher: 01:06:39

Because I also need to be away from you to kinda get my own head right.

Christian: 01:06:42

Correct. It's

Whitney: 01:06:43

like playing blocks with toddlers. Right? Like you trying to build a tower They just keep knocking it. And they just, you know

Christopher: 01:06:49

Knocking it over and it's just like

Whitney: 01:06:50

It's like I can't build this while you in the room. Wow. I got to close the door so I can build this tower.

Christopher: 01:06:57

Right.

Christian: 01:06:58

Because it's gotta get built.

Whitney: 01:06:59

And if I put in my supports before you come back in, you could try to knock it over and it won't. It won't.

Christopher: 01:07:04

Right. Exactly.

Christian: 01:07:05

So and that's that's the next part. Right?

Christopher: 01:07:07

And that's what because I was gonna talk about forgiveness and what that looks like embodied.

Whitney: 01:07:14

Oh. Forgiveness for whom?

Christopher: 01:07:15

Forgiveness for the people that have wronged you. And and and I'll get into it. But the way that we, you know, like you said, talk about forgiveness even now because it's very a literal interpretation Yeah. The Bible is. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:07:28

But we have to remind ourselves even when we approach the Bible that the map is not the territory.

Whitney: 01:07:32

Come on. The map is not the territory.

Christopher: 01:07:37

I love that. There's so many things that we have written down in the past that we try to adhere richly to. That's the voice from context, the voice from the time which they're written.

Christian: 01:07:46

Mhmm. Voice from change?

Christopher: 01:07:47

The voice from change.

Whitney: 01:07:48

Yeah. Talking about maps.

Christopher: 01:07:50

We don't understand that the landscape has changed. And even though, yes, the map is here and then we see the borders and stuff like that

Christian: 01:07:57

All that shit can do.

Christopher: 01:07:58

You don't Right. You don't catch the hills. You don't catch the valleys. You don't catch the peaks.

Whitney: 01:08:02

Any destruction that's come since that was last captured?

Christian: 01:08:05

Right. The hurricane There's

Christopher: 01:08:06

three ways that came through now. Slides. Right. You don't catch all of that unless because you have to walk the territory. And so while that may say forgive, you gotta walk that

Whitney: 01:08:17

out. Absolutely.

Christopher: 01:08:18

And forgiveness doesn't look like how it's described in the Bible or or on paper because

Whitney: 01:08:27

because it's a process.

Christopher: 01:08:28

It's a process. It's real life happening.

Whitney: 01:08:30

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:08:30

And what you talked about even now about how you're able to still have a an existing relationship with your mom Mhmm. Even with, you know, you love me and you also harmed me. Yeah. How do I reconcile the two? How how can I honor both?

Christopher: 01:08:46

Yeah. How can I honor both the good in you and the potential and and the potential in me that I'm still yet finding out? Yeah. And and yeah. And like you said and so you have to in you have to, like you said, bring up those boundaries.

Whitney: 01:09:00

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:09:00

Those things in yourself that makes a relationship with with people that are still figuring out their own shit Yeah. Navigable.

Christian: 01:09:08

Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. So when you're talking about like walking out forgiveness

Christopher: 01:09:12

Right.

Christian: 01:09:13

I think with when you said it's not like what the Bible describes.

Christopher: 01:09:17

It's typically Right. Right. It's not about it. It's it's

Christian: 01:09:19

Which which would be what?

Christopher: 01:09:21

You know, releasing like how we

Christian: 01:09:23

Throw it into the sea of forgetfulness.

Christopher: 01:09:24

Throw it into the sea of forgetfulness.

Christian: 01:09:25

Forgetting. Okay.

Christopher: 01:09:26

Forgive and forget. And, you know, we should be all good even though you've you've harmed it. I should always have this cheery disposition every time you slander my name or or something in my face. I should always

Christian: 01:09:37

And so I keep

Christopher: 01:09:38

this facade that that that that you're not bothering me in a way Yeah.

Christian: 01:09:42

I am intrigued

Christopher: 01:09:43

by really offended me that I don't get to hold grudges.

Christian: 01:09:45

Though I'm intrigued by the way that you're talking about it

Christopher: 01:09:48

Yeah.

Christian: 01:09:48

For two reasons. One, I never thought that the bible was telling me I had the smile in your face. Me. This is didn't her. I I would agree with would agree with her.

Christian: 01:10:03

However, I was socialized to do that. Yes. Right? And so I think that's what you're describing.

Christopher: 01:10:09

Yes. I mean yeah. And and I and I imply that because when Peter talks about, you know, with Jesus talking about, you know, how many times if my brother unfit me, how many times should I give forgive him? Seven times? And, you know, Jesus is like, no, Peter.

Christopher: 01:10:22

Seven times seven. Times Yeah. 70 times seven. And for for them, that just means, you know, completeness. It's not a 490 times.

Christopher: 01:10:31

Right. He's basically the way it's written, you don't get a lot of nuance into what that looks like every time somebody offends you.

Whitney: 01:10:40

Yeah. Right. And what and what

Christopher: 01:10:42

You just be like, oh, okay. I'll just.

Whitney: 01:10:43

Yeah. And it's not preached with like the doctrine of accountability. No. Because I feel like accountability is in the bible. It's preached separately from forgiveness but the two things go together.

Whitney: 01:10:53

Also, there are natural natural consequences for actions. Right?

Christopher: 01:10:57

Right.

Whitney: 01:10:58

And so with forgiveness, which I I have a weird relationship with forgiveness that I'm still walking out.

Christopher: 01:11:03

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:11:03

Yeah. Because I think part of is for my personal orientation of like, I have a religion of love. Like that is it, which requires me to like see your person.

Christian: 01:11:15

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:11:15

Right? And so like even as I say, like I've have worked through and mostly have worked through a lot of the things with my daddy post him being gone, it's that it's really humanizing him. Even though he didn't act like a human all the time, it's humanizing him and saying, this is how you got there. What it is not doing is excusing his behavior. Right?

Christopher: 01:11:36

Right. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:11:36

And I don't have regrets about like my dad died. My dad was sick and I he never he didn't even try. He didn't speak to any of us it. He literally went back to his birth family

Christian: 01:11:48

And stayed over there.

Whitney: 01:11:48

Which was in the same city, if we can be clear.

Christian: 01:11:50

But stayed over there.

Whitney: 01:11:51

And stayed over there and then just like got sick and died. And like my auntie let us know. Yeah. So we knew something was happening, but he got mad at her for that. Right?

Christopher: 01:11:59

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:11:59

And so it was one of those things where like, oh, this is not again, we're not gonna be able to handle that here.

Christian: 01:12:05

Right.

Whitney: 01:12:05

You know mean? So, yeah, like, I won't be able to do this in concert with you.

Christian: 01:12:09

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:12:09

Not in your like, not in your personage.

Christian: 01:12:12

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:12:12

Right?

Whitney: 01:12:14

It is so I don't have any regrets. I don't like, people say that, oh my god. You're going no contact with your parent. What happens if something happens? Then they die, bitch, or I die.

Whitney: 01:12:22

Like, what do you mean? Then that's the end that we can work through through it a different Yeah.

Christian: 01:12:26

There's a there's this there's a there's an assumption Yes. That the loss of contact is greater than the potential for harm.

Whitney: 01:12:37

Right. And for me, that was not the case.

Christian: 01:12:39

Yeah. Right.

Whitney: 01:12:39

Like, it I and then we there's a consensus in my family that when my daddy passed, we all felt relieved.

Christian: 01:12:46

Yeah. No. We had this discussion. I remember that.

Christopher: 01:12:48

Yeah. That was an exhale.

Whitney: 01:12:49

Yeah. Like, I I ain't cried about it to this day. Yeah. Like, it literally was like, remember because I was he died before we went to Cuba. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:12:56

And I was like, I'll grieve in Cuba. I'll figure it out in Cuba. And I got to Cuba and was like, there's nothing to do. I'm having a great time. It's hot as fuck.

Whitney: 01:13:02

It wasn't hot. Like, that's you know, because they're like, a, I had grieved that man before he died. I grieved that man said the same

Christian: 01:13:10

thing about my grandma. Exactly. I did cry a lot Yeah. No. No.

Christian: 01:13:15

No. Completely completely different. Yeah. But I said the same thing about my grandma. My grandma had a protracted disease.

Christian: 01:13:20

Yes. She she died of old age, I guess technically, but she had dementia.

Whitney: 01:13:24

It was a long road.

Christian: 01:13:25

Yeah. And so she was in nursing home for A decade? Six years.

Whitney: 01:13:28

Was it not a decade? I thought she did she have dementia for a decade?

Christian: 01:13:32

That girl, the beginning of that story is weird. She was in the nursing home for about seven years, I think. Yeah. It wasn't quite a decade. It was pushing it though.

Christian: 01:13:39

But for us, it was like, oh, she's gone. But it's like, granny kinda been gone.

Whitney: 01:13:44

Right? Like she's now physically gone. Yeah. She's But she hasn't been herself.

Christopher: 01:13:48

Right. Right. The life.

Whitney: 01:13:49

For a

Christian: 01:13:49

long time. Yeah. So I I I understood from that perspective when you said, whew. You know? It's like, okay.

Whitney: 01:13:58

Yeah. Right. Now we can actually move forward. Right? Because like we're in this limbo.

Whitney: 01:14:03

Yeah. And for me, the limbo was on my my it honestly was on my mother's making. But Yeah. It was it was just this constant limbo. And it's like now, finally, now we can actually start to close shit out.

Whitney: 01:14:15

Yeah. Right? Which I thought. I thought. But what ended up happening is that I had to go on a forgiveness journey for myself, for my dad that I think I had had been taught to divorce those two, forgiveness and accountability.

Whitney: 01:14:27

Oh. And because I I held it for so long that I was like, no. Somebody like Somebody must pay. Somebody no. Somebody must remember.

Whitney: 01:14:36

Yeah. Because the issue is my mama don't remember traumatic events. The way her brain works I understand. And has always worked, it just shuts it off. Right?

Whitney: 01:14:44

So there's so many things that you're not about to cry. There are so many things that have happened in my I'm not I'm really

Christian: 01:14:50

not about to cry.

Whitney: 01:14:50

I'm okay. Sorry. She was handing me tissue. No. Know.

Whitney: 01:14:53

I gotta close. But, like, there are so many things that have happened in my life that he and I were the only witnesses to that remembered.

Christopher: 01:15:00

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:15:00

He would never admit it. My mama couldn't remember. And by the time, like, my sibling was born, they were asleep half the time. Praise God.

Christian: 01:15:07

Yeah. Missed out on that.

Whitney: 01:15:08

Right. So there's a couple where, like, people saw the immediate f like, have seen the immediate aftermath. Right? So you know I'm not lying. Oh, I know you're not lying.

Whitney: 01:15:16

Same with my ex husband.

Christopher: 01:15:17

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:15:18

Yeah. People have seen the immediate aftermath, but nobody was in that moment. Nobody. Like, would admit to the fact

Christian: 01:15:23

that the moment happened. I heard some of it. You called me once and I heard some of it. Right. Closest I got.

Christian: 01:15:28

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:15:29

And There are police reports. Terrifying.

Christopher: 01:15:31

Yeah.

Christian: 01:15:31

Absolutely terrifying.

Whitney: 01:15:32

There are CPS reports because my granny filed one. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like there are things

Christian: 01:15:37

But you want you wanted somebody to remember.

Whitney: 01:15:39

I needed I like, I felt like if I let it go Yeah. Then that was it.

Christopher: 01:15:44

Right. And that's and that's the thing too. I was watching this movie exhibiting forgiveness and at the very beautiful movie.

Whitney: 01:15:51

It sounds beautiful. The title is

Christopher: 01:15:53

At the so it was about an artist and working through his own pain with his own father. Yeah. We actually came back into his life later on. And then think the mom died. She brought him back into his life because she was on her way out.

Christian: 01:16:09

Got it.

Christopher: 01:16:09

And she wanted him them to

Whitney: 01:16:11

Try to reconcile.

Christopher: 01:16:12

Reconcile in some way. You know, and there's a lesson in that that you can't really force that.

Christian: 01:16:16

And of course not.

Christopher: 01:16:17

And and there was a there was a very explosive scenes. Mhmm. The proving the point is like, look, you cannot because number one, what whatever you're trying to bring out is gonna come back at you. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:16:29

And I have to tell you truth in that moment, that scene actually accelerated her own death. But at the end, he said one very, like, remember line. He's like, look, I forgive you for what you've done to me.

Whitney: 01:16:40

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:16:41

We're good. But I can't forget what you did to my mom.

Whitney: 01:16:44

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:16:45

And and so he was like, look, it doesn't mean like, whatever you needed from that is what you got, but the future belongs to my wife and my kid. We don't have a future right now. We don't have

Whitney: 01:16:59

That's real.

Christopher: 01:17:00

And that's what you want. I'm sorry. I can't get that to you because I can't forget what you did to my mom. Yeah. And they handed me like a a piece of his, you know, piece of our art from the museum.

Christopher: 01:17:11

They they they said, hey, you know, put this in your prayer closet. Because you because he father's like, look, I'll never stop praying for you. And, you know, he's like the father turned his life around Yeah. Yeah. Trying to.

Christopher: 01:17:24

But again, the damage was done.

Whitney: 01:17:25

The yeah.

Christopher: 01:17:26

And then even there was points throughout the movie that showed that he hadn't even fully processed

Whitney: 01:17:33

Yes.

Christopher: 01:17:33

The trauma that he inflicted on his

Whitney: 01:17:35

son. Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:17:37

Further proving that he's untrustworthy of a future.

Whitney: 01:17:40

Well, and that's it. That's the consequence.

Christopher: 01:17:41

Right.

Christian: 01:17:42

Yeah. That's the consequence of the actual The natural con consequence of the future.

Whitney: 01:17:45

And so I think that that was also my thing is that I felt like their consequences weren't paid. Yeah. But then I'm like, but were they? Because consequences are not always what you think they are. No.

Whitney: 01:17:55

And so Right. And, you know, I I strongly believe in karma and sometimes you gotta come back and do this shit again.

Christopher: 01:18:01

Right. And

Christian: 01:18:02

God speak to you.

Christopher: 01:18:03

Yeah. And I had a you said another thought because that brought up some ideas around this current climate of trying to even redeem someone like Hitler. Yes. Revisionist history and all this stuff.

Christian: 01:18:18

We don't have to do.

Christopher: 01:18:19

And it's like, we don't have to do that. Number one Yeah. I don't look. You know, people say, is Hitler in here? If you don't believe in the universe, Hitler.

Christopher: 01:18:25

It's like, look. I don't care what Hitler has done.

Christian: 01:18:28

Or it's That's between him and

Christopher: 01:18:29

That's between him and God Yeah. In the other realm. I don't need the concept of hell for God to be

Whitney: 01:18:34

just. Correct.

Christopher: 01:18:35

But Correct. Whatever he's decided on what no. That's what that's what he did. I don't need to redeem him for what he's done in this life.

Christian: 01:18:45

Correct. I'm not

Christopher: 01:18:46

going In history, we need to always remember him as a maniac and a

Whitney: 01:18:51

Cautionary tale.

Christopher: 01:18:52

As cautionary tale. We don't need to redeem his memory. Yeah. Whatever he whoever he is with God now, that's who he is with God now. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:19:00

And I'm okay with that.

Christian: 01:19:01

But he calls

Christopher: 01:19:02

He's not here. You wreaked havoc

Christian: 01:19:03

here and we don't need to forget it.

Christopher: 01:19:04

And we don't need to forget it. And we're forgetting it because we're not reinflicting the same kind of shit on other marginalized peoples.

Christian: 01:19:13

Or the same ones.

Christopher: 01:19:14

Or the same ones. A

Whitney: 01:19:16

little bit of both. Little bit of both. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:19:18

But, yeah, like you said, so that forgiveness does not mean it is releasing the power of harm over

Whitney: 01:19:28

Yes.

Christopher: 01:19:28

That person's life and allowing space for healing. It is more for you.

Christian: 01:19:31

It is literally the same you.

Christopher: 01:19:34

Solve the person

Whitney: 01:19:35

That's literally No.

Christopher: 01:19:36

It's to it's for you to have peace so that you're not held captive

Whitney: 01:19:42

Yes. By their actions.

Christopher: 01:19:43

Power of their actions.

Christian: 01:19:44

And I think if we view Jesus's words in that light Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:19:47

You

Christian: 01:19:48

keep yourself free. Yes. Right. It doesn't matter how much they keep yourself free.

Christopher: 01:19:53

Free.

Christian: 01:19:54

No. But They can't put you in bondage unless you let them.

Whitney: 01:19:56

Here's the thing. That is a thing, like, I feel like I had heard at some point but could not operationalize until I had to operationalize. Right. Couldn't operationalize it because I think in order to fully understand forgiveness, there's a process you must go through with yourself. Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:20:12

Right? So it's not just like, yeah, forgive other people. I don't blame myself for anything neither one of my parents did because that wasn't my business.

Christopher: 01:20:19

Mhmm. That

Whitney: 01:20:20

that was they shit. Right? Indeed. But there are the ways in which I carried that as part of my narratives or part of my beliefs or self-concept. Right?

Whitney: 01:20:29

That may have caused me more damage.

Christian: 01:20:31

Yeah. They

Whitney: 01:20:31

did. Right? Right. Right. Fortunately, not like life altering damage.

Whitney: 01:20:35

Well, yes. But not in in a way that was so destructive that I haven't been able to function sometimes because trauma can have that effect on people.

Christian: 01:20:41

Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:20:41

Of course. And I feel very privileged to have had enough protective factors.

Christian: 01:20:45

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:20:46

For that not to be my story. Yeah. Praise God. Oh, praise God. I'm not about to go and shout, but I feel it in my spirit.

Whitney: 01:20:52

I've been shouting all week. I just want y'all to know shouting and singing all week. But they're the the ways in which not only that I have held myself captive, but shit then turned around and inflicted pain on others in lesser ways, obviously. But like, it's just like, oh, no. You did that because this is how you process that and now I gotta forgive me.

Whitney: 01:21:28

Yeah. Right? Like I have to forgive myself. I might have apologized and like, oh, I want this person to forgive me and they may never. Right?

Whitney: 01:21:34

But like

Christopher: 01:21:34

Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:21:35

I have to forgive me for even the little shit that I've done. Like the little shit like that time I went off on my recent eighth grade even though he earned it.

Christian: 01:21:43

Like Yeah. I slept a dude with with my lunch kid one time.

Whitney: 01:21:46

You know what I'm saying?

Christian: 01:21:47

He was like was being loved.

Christopher: 01:21:49

That felt very like deserved.

Whitney: 01:21:51

Yeah. Because Christian not violent

Christopher: 01:21:52

at all. Oh, he ain't she ain't for that life.

Christian: 01:21:54

Like looking back on it, it was not that dramatic.

Whitney: 01:21:56

He was getting on my last nerve.

Christian: 01:21:58

Yeah. That's how it works. He was getting on my last nerve and I smacked him and then later on I found out his mama was dying from cancer and I felt

Whitney: 01:22:04

so good. And I think that is it.

Christian: 01:22:06

Right? So fast. So this

Whitney: 01:22:08

is what I this is what I mean when

Christopher: 01:22:10

I You can't act it out from somewhere. Right?

Whitney: 01:22:11

Everyone is.

Christian: 01:22:13

Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:22:13

Yeah. And so I think that when I talk about considering another person's humanity, it is that. It is that I don't actually know what's happening in the other part of your story. We could live in the same house, and I don't know what the fuck is happening in the other part of your story. What I do know is is that maybe your behavior is harmful and we can talk about that.

Whitney: 01:22:30

Yes. Right? We can draw boundaries around that. Right. I don't have to make a judgment about you.

Whitney: 01:22:34

And that and that that is what the lesson of forgiving my dad has taught me.

Christopher: 01:22:38

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:22:39

Like, that has been the journey of, like, our posthumous journey

Christian: 01:22:43

Yes.

Whitney: 01:22:43

Of like, yeah, I can see the trauma that because my dad had a trauma traumatic childhood.

Christopher: 01:22:49

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:22:49

And so it's like, I can see that the like, and I often when I think of him, I think of him as that little boy.

Christopher: 01:22:55

Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:22:56

And that is one of those things I remember reading All About Love by Bill Hooks. Yeah. And he was the first person that came to mind and it broke my heart for who he was. And I was like, this he never knew love. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:23:07

Man. He didn't know it. Mhmm. So how was he he all he had was facsimiles of love.

Christopher: 01:23:11

Right.

Whitney: 01:23:12

And they got distorted. Yeah. And it's just like, I'm tearing up, but I'm good.

Christopher: 01:23:16

But that's

Whitney: 01:23:16

But but

Christopher: 01:23:17

That's where forgiveness comes. It comes in the in in the soil of patience and understanding.

Whitney: 01:23:22

Compassion. Exactly. Compassion. And so it's like, I can and that is when I learned. Forgiveness for me looks like holding compassion for his humanity Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:23:33

While also holding allowing him to be held accountable by whatever standards, gods, whomever, who are in charge. I don't it is I remember saying this to my sibling. I was like, I because I had an epiphany. This is my life. I wake up, I have epiphanies.

Whitney: 01:23:47

I wake up, messages get dropped. And I like, remember, was Hailey living here? Maybe. And I yes. Because I think I came downstairs and I was like, I just realized I'm not the person that has to hold him accountable.

Whitney: 01:24:00

I don't have to do this. No. This is not on me. This is not my job.

Christian: 01:24:07

That's not your job.

Whitney: 01:24:07

Like, but I feared even as a kid because my mama didn't my mama like half ass held him accountable. Mhmm. Yeah. Right? Like, she wanted to do more.

Whitney: 01:24:15

She's really upset about it now. But like, what what she was equipped with then there were so many other dynamics happening. Right? And so, like, I felt like at the time, if I didn't do it Nobody would. Nobody would.

Whitney: 01:24:26

Right. Well, that wasn't true then. Right? Because there is I strongly believe in a higher power. God has got it.

Christopher: 01:24:32

Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:24:32

I don't have

Christian: 01:24:33

to get it. And Right. And in a way you really can't.

Whitney: 01:24:36

You can. That's not your job. It's literally

Christian: 01:24:40

You know? So the day

Whitney: 01:24:41

I let that me to like hold him accountable go was the day I actually started to forgive.

Christopher: 01:24:46

Yep. There you go.

Whitney: 01:24:47

Because I couldn't do that without that process. When we're talking about

Christian: 01:24:50

trying to go to to heal, right, this is a huge part of it for a lot of people Yeah. Is dealing with past hurts, particularly from caregivers, but it can include all sorts of people. It can. Often does. And the process is gonna sound like a lot of what they already talked about.

Christian: 01:25:09

Right? But what you just said oops. Sorry about that, Gail. What you just said really makes me think of what you just said was like you had to forgive yourself for a lot of different things.

Whitney: 01:25:19

Yeah.

Christian: 01:25:19

Right? And you have to start valuing your own humanity. Absolutely. Mhmm. And forgiving your own mistakes.

Christian: 01:25:26

Absolutely.

Christopher: 01:25:27

Right.

Christian: 01:25:27

And we've talked about this before. You you like to talk about instead of being mad at younger Whitney or like, oh, I need to kill off this old person.

Whitney: 01:25:36

We don't do that.

Christian: 01:25:36

We integrate. Yes. Right? We A %. We intentionally like look at that younger self and go, you are safe.

Christian: 01:25:45

Mhmm. You did the best you could with the tools that you had and these are the ones we're gonna use moving forward like that kind of energy and I think that's really important and that's a lot of I did not my childhood

Whitney: 01:25:59

Come on, child.

Christian: 01:25:59

Childhood. Right. They were a childhood. My my child

Christopher: 01:26:04

My god. Today.

Christian: 01:26:05

My child is just Change the word. Is not the kind of dramatic or traumatic that that Whitney or Chris have experienced. And so a lot of my focus tends to be on like dealing with the the narratives that play in my head with the way that I interact with my kid. So when I say I lost my shit and Whitney is like giving context

Whitney: 01:26:28

Yeah.

Christian: 01:26:28

Most people wouldn't say me going move is me losing my shit.

Whitney: 01:26:32

Correct.

Christian: 01:26:32

Right? That but for me, the elevation in my voice Yeah. The the the energy that I had behind it indicates a loss A dysregulation.

Christopher: 01:26:43

Right.

Christian: 01:26:43

It's a disreg on my part that I was acting out on my kid. Right. And so it's a reminder and I do this with my therapist a lot. I'm getting she's reminding me, you are growing too. Yes.

Christopher: 01:26:57

Right.

Christian: 01:26:57

And so when you do things that you don't like, that you think you wish were different, you also deserve grace. Yes. And you deserve to process all of these things because you are not a terrible person for this thing. You are not a bad mom for this thing which, whoo, that's a loud track.

Christopher: 01:27:19

Yeah. Is.

Whitney: 01:27:20

That's a

Christian: 01:27:21

loud track. Not like bad mom, but you're not a you're not as good of a mom as you could be. Right? Yes. Like, but I mean, the I didn't say it was right.

Christian: 01:27:31

Yeah. I'm with you.

Whitney: 01:27:32

I just wanted to confirm that I disagree with that track.

Christopher: 01:27:34

Yeah. We we are affirming.

Whitney: 01:27:36

We've seen you parents.

Christopher: 01:27:36

We're amplifying the We disagree.

Christian: 01:27:38

But again I'm learning. The things,

Whitney: 01:27:40

you

Christian: 01:27:41

know, the the things that I saw my mom do, not saying she did absolutely everything, of course she did because humans. But that, you know, there are things that I think make a mom that my mom did or that some of my friends do that it's like, that's what moms that's what good moms do. And it's like, if I don't if I'm not doing those specific things Yeah. I need to fix it. I'm not good enough yet instead of being like, well, is there something you wanna incorporate?

Christian: 01:28:09

Well, we need to heal that. Yeah. We need to start we we start where we are. We evaluate. Get in contact with the muscle.

Christian: 01:28:15

You know? How do we integrate? How do how do

Whitney: 01:28:18

we Not just ourselves, but how do we integrate new practices?

Christian: 01:28:20

How do

Christopher: 01:28:21

we Right.

Christian: 01:28:21

Right. How how do we wanna move intentionally? What things do we move move away from and what things do we need to move towards and not it's the energy behind it that tends to be a problem for me. It's like an obsessive fix it energy Yeah. Instead of an intentional and aligned energy.

Christian: 01:28:37

Yeah. But that intentional fix it energy hit she I mean, that sounds

Whitney: 01:28:41

she's you 12 sometimes. You know, that's how we were taught. What's funny is now that you're talking, and this is totally a sidebar, when your version of losing your shit is exactly your mom's version of losing her shit. She rarely did. She didn't.

Whitney: 01:28:55

Mhmm. Like, your mom is Laura,

Christopher: 01:28:56

stop looking at your face.

Whitney: 01:28:57

That's it. He wasn't even there. He knows it. Knows it. Christian and I were there and we

Christopher: 01:29:02

were terrified because

Whitney: 01:29:04

hey, wasn't talking to us.

Christian: 01:29:05

Spunned into silence.

Whitney: 01:29:06

She wasn't even talking

Christian: 01:29:07

to us. She was not talking to either of Right? She wouldn't even look at us.

Whitney: 01:29:10

She wasn't even in the same room with either of us. But there was a

Christian: 01:29:15

hole in the wall so we

Christopher: 01:29:15

could see it.

Whitney: 01:29:16

It. We could see it. And like it had it had been what it honestly at that point might have been warranted. I understand. Let me say, I understand how she got where she was.

Christian: 01:29:23

I did. I did hear

Whitney: 01:29:23

you too. Right? You Oh,

Christian: 01:29:26

I mean,

Whitney: 01:29:26

she he's her third recounting. Oh, yes. In the recounting. Now he has a toddler so I

Christopher: 01:29:31

get it. Damn.

Christian: 01:29:32

And your

Christopher: 01:29:33

toddler I empathize.

Whitney: 01:29:34

Your toddler is not nearly as wild as that particular young child was. No. He was older.

Christopher: 01:29:40

So Yeah.

Whitney: 01:29:41

He was older.

Christian: 01:29:43

He was probably about eight. Yeah. I

Whitney: 01:29:44

think so.

Christian: 01:29:45

He was older. Oh, Wait. How much older than him are you? Seven years.

Whitney: 01:29:49

Yes. He probably was.

Christian: 01:29:50

Yeah. We were teenagers. Yeah. We were he may have been older than him.

Whitney: 01:29:53

I think he might have been nine

Christian: 01:29:53

or 10. Was that I was gonna say, was that when you were living with

Whitney: 01:29:55

us? Yes.

Christian: 01:29:56

He would have been 10. Yeah. Yeah. He would have been 10.

Christopher: 01:29:59

Yeah. He's a world.

Whitney: 01:30:00

Yeah. So too old for that shit.

Christian: 01:30:02

Yeah. Too old

Whitney: 01:30:02

too old for the shit that he was doing and not have been in the shower for an hour. So long and tried every which away. Every which away and every sweet tone. She had done all the things. All the things.

Whitney: 01:30:14

All the things. Like everything a granny could do.

Christian: 01:30:17

Because this is granny now.

Whitney: 01:30:18

This is granny.

Christopher: 01:30:19

Right.

Whitney: 01:30:19

She had done them.

Christian: 01:30:20

If you got granny yelling at you, you ought to know

Whitney: 01:30:22

Baby, you done done something wrong. He had. He had. He was wrong. He's damn right.

Christopher: 01:30:25

Phyllis Elaine came out.

Whitney: 01:30:26

Okay. And listen.

Christian: 01:30:28

That was Ruby.

Whitney: 01:30:29

It Her Ruby was it was wild because your mom never yelled. She doesn't yell.

Christian: 01:30:33

My mama I cannot recall it to this day. Oh, it My mother has never yelled at me. That's never

Christopher: 01:30:39

Once she yelled at me, that was funny.

Christian: 01:30:41

That was funny.

Christopher: 01:30:42

It was over eggs.

Christian: 01:30:43

It it was just Are you doing something crazy? No. It wasn't even yelled.

Christopher: 01:30:47

Had a different time.

Christian: 01:30:48

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:30:49

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:30:49

I think they're done now. Like it

Christian: 01:30:50

was They don't sound it was loud.

Christopher: 01:30:52

Yeah. It it wasn't like, yeah, it was just like racing. She

Whitney: 01:30:54

will she will get louder if she needs more importance, but it's not in the tone of a yell.

Christopher: 01:30:59

Right. Yeah. And like, I

Whitney: 01:31:00

You know, like, I need to get your attention.

Christopher: 01:31:01

I tend to cook eggs a little longer than she.

Christian: 01:31:03

Come on, hard screen. She deemed that she deemed appropriate.

Christopher: 01:31:06

Right.

Christian: 01:31:06

Hilarious. Sweet hackle about that to this.

Christopher: 01:31:09

And I was like, she's technically right.

Christian: 01:31:11

She was. They were perfectly because he took them off immediately.

Christopher: 01:31:14

Yeah. I was like, hold on.

Whitney: 01:31:15

Me try. Because they keep cooking once you take them off.

Christian: 01:31:17

I know. Yeah. But he was talking we were talking. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 01:31:20

Yeah. He was like

Whitney: 01:31:20

She was focused. She was like, I need you to focus.

Christopher: 01:31:23

I think we're done.

Christian: 01:31:23

Your meds.

Whitney: 01:31:24

Yes. So it's just it's funny to me how like for for me, that is so minor.

Christian: 01:31:31

Completely

Whitney: 01:31:31

Most minor thing that can happen in a house is somebody going move

Christopher: 01:31:34

me. Right.

Whitney: 01:31:35

Oh shit. I should move. Like, let me get I like to move on. Like, let me get a move on. But like yeah.

Whitney: 01:31:43

It just it it really reflects. It it it's reflective of the environment in which you were brought up and that just tickled me so because it really is, why am I still looking at your face? Right. We literally I think Christian ducked, I ran into the pantry.

Christian: 01:31:54

I did. Yes.

Whitney: 01:31:56

We both hid. And I We did not You

Christian: 01:32:00

because I went and she was gone

Whitney: 01:32:03

in the pantry. More closed. The pantry wasn't even that even for walking. It is

Christian: 01:32:09

I was gonna suck

Whitney: 01:32:10

it up. I closed that door and then I let my tummy out.

Christopher: 01:32:14

Because

Whitney: 01:32:15

I said, oh. Again Mister Phyllis never yells.

Christian: 01:32:18

It's just But

Whitney: 01:32:19

you see what I'm wild.

Christian: 01:32:20

So it it it's less about the action and more about the deviation from your normal. Correct.

Whitney: 01:32:25

Right.

Christian: 01:32:25

Right. And so like for me, if I'm normally talking to Sydney like this

Whitney: 01:32:29

Yes.

Christian: 01:32:29

Or we're playing and then I

Whitney: 01:32:31

go to move Right. That's it's yeah. It's terrifying.

Christopher: 01:32:35

It was terrifying and it's like, what did I do to deserve this?

Whitney: 01:32:37

Correct.

Christopher: 01:32:38

Lot of processing going on.

Whitney: 01:32:39

Right. But that's also why I get the caveat because some people listening may have a childhood that looks closer to half of mine. Yeah. Because my mama's not

Christopher: 01:32:47

too bad. Mine. I got slapped by brushing my teeth for no reason.

Christian: 01:32:50

Oh. He got hit in the head with books. That wasn't my parents,

Christopher: 01:32:52

but By a third grade teacher.

Whitney: 01:32:54

Yeah. See, and this is where we would have to fight. Because it's the nerve of you. The nerve. Girl, I've mitigated audacity.

Christopher: 01:33:02

Yeah. And and and it's funny is to this day, I hadn't told a soul that it happened.

Christian: 01:33:07

He didn't think anything of

Christopher: 01:33:08

I didn't think anything of it because, oh, yeah. You know, people get you know, people beat kids all the time. That's fine.

Whitney: 01:33:12

You know?

Christian: 01:33:12

I was

Whitney: 01:33:12

gonna say because if it's in your norm at any time

Christopher: 01:33:14

It is in my norm. Yeah. It was like

Whitney: 01:33:16

Whereas I feel like that type of I would unwarranted violence was not until, like Yeah. There was a whole timeline with my family. But Right. There was a point where, like, unwarranted violence just did It

Christopher: 01:33:26

was like a hardback spelling book, you know, it just

Whitney: 01:33:31

Wait, two hands off of the head? Oh, bitch. I would have sworn.

Christopher: 01:33:35

Yeah. No. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:33:36

Not my head. Actually, don't know. That's a lie. I wouldn't have sworn. I actually wasn't that kid.

Whitney: 01:33:39

What I would have done was immediately gone up, gotten up, walked out and went to the principal's office. I would chattel tail.

Christopher: 01:33:45

You know what and you know what my thought was? Yeah. I should've sent my ass down.

Christian: 01:33:48

Yeah. That was his thought. It was his fault. Right. His thought was that it was his fault.

Christopher: 01:33:53

Yeah. I should've sent

Whitney: 01:33:53

my Damn.

Christian: 01:33:54

Because like another narratives though.

Christopher: 01:33:56

Yeah. Another stare another student wanted to see whatever I was pointing out. And so, yeah, I am.

Whitney: 01:34:03

So you was helping somebody?

Christopher: 01:34:04

No. I wasn't helping somebody. Oh. What happened was I had walked up to the teacher. Hey.

Christopher: 01:34:09

There's this little thing in my fucking book that's, like wrong or whatever.

Whitney: 01:34:13

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:34:13

It's like, I I think it was made like some obscenity or whatever the fuck. And and she was like, I guess she was already like, you know, on edge about something else. Mhmm. And she was like, Chris, okay. Go sit

Christian: 01:34:25

Was she black?

Christopher: 01:34:26

What the fuck do want me to do about it? No. She was white.

Whitney: 01:34:28

See, I knew it. I'd asked it in reverse because I knew. And

Christopher: 01:34:32

I was just like, you know, she she was like, yeah. For me, it was very much I

Christian: 01:34:36

thought she was black. Audacity. Audacity.

Christopher: 01:34:41

That energy. For you, woman.

Christian: 01:34:42

To take your

Whitney: 01:34:43

butt head.

Christopher: 01:34:44

Yeah. And sit up. So I'm going back

Whitney: 01:34:45

On my black child. I would have had her job as a child. I took my bus driver's job. I would have had that bitch's head. Carry on.

Christopher: 01:34:53

But no. Yeah. So I you know, so okay. Alright. Fine.

Christopher: 01:34:56

I don't know what you own, but I just go The

Whitney: 01:34:58

mistreatment of the night.

Christian: 01:34:59

So then some another student asked what

Whitney: 01:35:01

you're doing.

Christopher: 01:35:01

What you show us? Oh, yeah. Wow. And then she just took the book, and that's the thing I knew. That's right on top of the head.

Christopher: 01:35:08

And I was like, you know, I should have said that.

Whitney: 01:35:10

Is she alive today?

Christopher: 01:35:11

She may have been. She may be.

Whitney: 01:35:13

You know what? Let's find her.

Christian: 01:35:14

Yeah. We'll discuss this offline.

Christopher: 01:35:16

Yeah. I was eight.

Christian: 01:35:17

I was I was was gonna let her make it when I thought

Whitney: 01:35:19

she playing. Would like to see if she's reconciled that within herself. And if not, I would like to provide her a nudge to doing so.

Christopher: 01:35:26

Yeah. Well, I only know her last night. But anyway

Christian: 01:35:29

We can figure it out. That's not a problem.

Christopher: 01:35:31

Okay. You know mean? I I love to support. I love to support as I'm coming out

Whitney: 01:35:36

I'm angry. I just wanna call out be vulnerable with my emotions. That story makes me angry.

Christian: 01:35:41

I'm livid. Yeah. I'm livid.

Christopher: 01:35:44

I'm sorry.

Whitney: 01:35:45

I'm ready to fight a old bitch.

Christian: 01:35:46

Girl, wheelchair and all.

Whitney: 01:35:49

And this is why it's important to maintain the right to fight people in wheelchairs. Word. Because not to not do so is ableist. You gotta Damn.

Christian: 01:35:58

Equal opportunity fight. Equal opportunity fight it.

Whitney: 01:36:00

And now I'm not saying whoop them with your full strength. Make it equitable. You know what I'm saying?

Christian: 01:36:05

I mean

Whitney: 01:36:06

Maybe you sit down. Baby. But like if you an asshole,

Christian: 01:36:09

you can get boxed. She hit my husband at the age of eight over the head with a spelling book.

Whitney: 01:36:16

You know what? She

Christian: 01:36:16

can get all of this energy.

Whitney: 01:36:18

But also we could just find an encyclopedia

Christian: 01:36:21

I'm fine with that.

Whitney: 01:36:22

And return the favor.

Christian: 01:36:23

I'm fine with that.

Whitney: 01:36:24

And I for an eye and I know Gandhi said it make the whole world blind but it's looking mighty blind in here anyway.

Christian: 01:36:28

I mean if bitches can't see, might as well get what

Christopher: 01:36:32

you get You know

Whitney: 01:36:32

what? I think that would that would fix the aim issue.

Christian: 01:36:35

I mean

Whitney: 01:36:35

because if she can't see, she just swipe it at the wind. That's fine. Okay. Don't really believe this y'all.

Christopher: 01:36:40

I'm I know. It's this

Whitney: 01:36:41

I'm just saying.

Christopher: 01:36:41

I'm talking bad

Christian: 01:36:42

shit. I don't

Christopher: 01:36:42

have it. Very dark humor right now.

Whitney: 01:36:44

Yeah, is. It is. But Christian is vindictive. Y'all, she a Scorpio. I don't know if y'all knew that.

Whitney: 01:36:49

Mhmm. Christian get mad vindictive. I'm a cuss. That's why I say I got a little vengeance in my soul. But Christian is actually Christian literally y'all, this is one of my favorite stories.

Whitney: 01:36:58

Actually told it at their wedding. It was part of my a maid of honor speech. It's just literally I had a a situationship breakup in my freshman year of college which was Christian's senior year of high school.

Christian: 01:37:12

Asshole.

Whitney: 01:37:13

To this day To this day. She hates this man.

Christian: 01:37:17

He could go kick asshole.

Christopher: 01:37:17

This is why you need to forgive because you got friends that will not forgive you.

Christian: 01:37:22

Listen. He's by who go forget, yo.

Whitney: 01:37:25

There are like literally, I have to I have to be cons I have to like if I am not done with a thing or if I'm still processing a thing, I'd be like, I gotta figure out how and when I'm a tell Christian because if I tell Christian, she is gonna hate forevermore. Mhmm. Like there will be no redemption. Whereas I'm like, no. I see the humanity.

Whitney: 01:37:44

We've talked it out. We've processed

Christopher: 01:37:46

this thing

Whitney: 01:37:46

and blah blah blah. Christian don't care. She'll be like, okay. She gonna do the nice nasty church lady.

Christian: 01:37:51

Look.

Whitney: 01:37:52

You know?

Christian: 01:37:52

I hope he has the day he deserves. Damn.

Whitney: 01:37:55

I mean, we were young.

Christian: 01:37:57

Whatever he deserves. That's I mean, I'm thriving. I

Whitney: 01:38:01

think that's the win.

Christian: 01:38:02

No. You having the day you deserve.

Whitney: 01:38:04

I I am. And that's Same for him.

Christian: 01:38:06

If he ends up thriving, like, good.

Whitney: 01:38:08

What if the rest of his life cause he was a little bit older than me. He was. Yeah. So like what if the rest

Christian: 01:38:14

of his life he's He that

Whitney: 01:38:16

much older than me. Damn.

Christian: 01:38:17

I'm sticking with it. Keep going.

Whitney: 01:38:18

How old was he? I think we're like what? Three, four years apart? I think

Christian: 01:38:21

it was four. Was it four? I thought it was four because I thought he was about to graduate.

Whitney: 01:38:25

He wasn't in school, baby.

Christian: 01:38:26

Well, I mean, like like the age of you know what I'm saying? Like, the age where he was moving on.

Christopher: 01:38:32

See, this and this is

Whitney: 01:38:33

I think I remember how old he was, and I think we're both wrong.

Christian: 01:38:35

Oh, okay.

Christopher: 01:38:36

This is why as

Whitney: 01:38:37

a three or four. You say what?

Christopher: 01:38:39

Why as a rule, I do not talk in bad light people I love to other people I love.

Christian: 01:38:48

Yes. Because I'll hate them? Is that is that what you know? That's people will form opinions because I love you.

Christopher: 01:38:55

Right.

Whitney: 01:38:55

Right? But it's just like, no. No. We're working

Christopher: 01:38:58

We're working through that. And so I yeah. It's not that I

Whitney: 01:39:01

don't talk about their humanity.

Christopher: 01:39:02

But I I frame it in a way such that whenever you meet them, you still get to form an opinion about them for yourself.

Christian: 01:39:09

I'm gonna But

Christopher: 01:39:10

I I I want to talk with you about how this

Christian: 01:39:13

I'm gonna make a I'm gonna make a separation between these two things.

Christopher: 01:39:16

Yeah. I know.

Christian: 01:39:16

Just for

Christopher: 01:39:17

I know. But I was just yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 01:39:19

What Whitney is talking about granted, he was a person that she was with back in the day. That's not a person Briefly. Her right. That's not a person who's currently like He hasn't

Whitney: 01:39:28

been around for to interact No.

Christopher: 01:39:31

I get what you're saying.

Christian: 01:39:31

I am able to control myself. Yeah. However, if I am of the opinion or assumption that you are currently harming someone I care about, I will not

Whitney: 01:39:39

be harming. It actually won't matter whether you say anything or not.

Christopher: 01:39:41

Right.

Whitney: 01:39:41

She picks up Oh, I won't.

Christopher: 01:39:42

Yeah. No.

Christian: 01:39:43

That was fair. I will. That's fair. I will.

Whitney: 01:39:45

And also same. I'm I'm Yeah. I'm the same way, but I am less quiet about it. Like, I will be polite to that person just because I don't believe in being abusive to people.

Christian: 01:39:56

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:39:56

And if if I hit you with a, yo, you got it.

Christopher: 01:39:59

Damn.

Whitney: 01:40:00

That's your last polite. You better go sit down and shut up somewhere.

Christian: 01:40:04

Yeah. You're you're more direct with it than

Whitney: 01:40:05

I am. But you fuck around and find out. I am

Christian: 01:40:08

yeah. Know.

Christopher: 01:40:08

Yeah. Know.

Christian: 01:40:09

And I'm

Whitney: 01:40:09

not even gonna be mean in my reading of you. But like at the end of it, it's gonna be a, hey, listen. I see what you're trying to do is not really working on me.

Christian: 01:40:17

Like Why is that? We just not interesting.

Whitney: 01:40:18

When did I do that?

Christian: 01:40:19

You did that to a a mutual friend.

Whitney: 01:40:22

I heard. Yeah.

Christian: 01:40:23

Yeah. I did. Yeah. You did that to a mutual friend.

Whitney: 01:40:24

Yeah. And it's like, yo, this is not really working for me. Like, the way you're communicating, the way this works, that doesn't really work in my world. So we can just keep our distance.

Christopher: 01:40:33

I almost embarrassed somebody yesterday for over that over some stuff like that.

Christian: 01:40:37

I believe it. Was it at work? Mhmm. Okay. Oh, yeah.

Christian: 01:40:40

Where were you?

Christopher: 01:40:41

And I used

Whitney: 01:40:42

Who is your embarrasses?

Christopher: 01:40:43

Yeah. Anyway.

Christian: 01:40:44

Whoever needs embarrassment. You know, and

Whitney: 01:40:47

that's really how it's just That is like, look. That's God intended. That is the order of life. And what

Christian: 01:40:52

did they say? Bring back shame?

Whitney: 01:40:53

Bring back I wish I had

Christopher: 01:40:55

a Babe.

Whitney: 01:40:56

I need a bell to ring. Shave. Bring back shit. But not internalize shame. Right.

Whitney: 01:41:01

Get rid of that. We shaming other people.

Christopher: 01:41:03

Shaming other

Whitney: 01:41:04

people. For doing stupid shameful shit. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:41:07

We're do it in the open. I'm a call it out in the open. I gotta ask. You see this

Whitney: 01:41:10

shit you shame on them. Wish you could sprinkle shame on people like dirt.

Christopher: 01:41:14

I'm like, yo.

Whitney: 01:41:14

You good. So they could feel the impact.

Christian: 01:41:16

Oh. It's like you feel this? This is the result of your action. Right.

Christopher: 01:41:20

Right. This is.

Whitney: 01:41:20

You know what this is? A swift consequence.

Christopher: 01:41:23

Sprinkling on it. Street karma.

Whitney: 01:41:25

Oh, not street justice.

Christian: 01:41:27

Street no, not street justice.

Christopher: 01:41:29

Well, not street

Whitney: 01:41:30

instant It's sprinkle. If

Christian: 01:41:32

it's a sprinkle, it would be like sapling

Christopher: 01:41:35

of just But I feel like instant karma is sampler.

Christian: 01:41:37

There you

Christopher: 01:41:37

go. Instant karma is street karma. I feel like it's it's

Christian: 01:41:40

I get what you mean. Sometimes.

Whitney: 01:41:41

But sometimes it's not.

Christopher: 01:41:42

It's like

Christian: 01:41:42

Sometimes it's just

Whitney: 01:41:43

extra. Sometimes it's just like, damn, that was quick.

Christopher: 01:41:45

That was very quick.

Whitney: 01:41:47

You stepped on a rake. Wow. Crazy.

Christopher: 01:41:49

You had

Christian: 01:41:50

a rake. You know the the visual. I know. I get the visual. I just haven't thought about something like that in years.

Whitney: 01:41:56

It's like

Christian: 01:41:57

one of the most probably one of the besides slipping on a banana, it's one of the most iconic visual, like, visual comedy bits. Absolutely.

Whitney: 01:42:04

It's worth stepping on. But okay. So I guess to circle it back. So

Christopher: 01:42:09

To my loving ourselves.

Whitney: 01:42:10

Before that, we were talking about integration. Right? And so, like, integrating the parts of yourself that you have you've grown out of. That's how we'll say it. The parts of yourself that you've evolved from.

Whitney: 01:42:22

Right? Instead of looking down upon them or what have you.

Christopher: 01:42:25

Right.

Whitney: 01:42:26

And instead of rejecting them as bad or broken because broken that's how we get there to fixing. Right? Is to say, oh, I'm so broken which no. I'm so bad. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:42:35

I'm so bad. I'm so broken which I first of all, I don't feel right coming out of my mouth. Myself is rejecting that just internally. But the truth of this is is like if the here's where it is. To let that go, you need a certain vulnerability to practice this radical acceptance of self.

Whitney: 01:42:55

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:42:56

Yes.

Whitney: 01:42:56

Right? Which allows you to integrate. And in order to practice radical acceptance, you have to see the truth

Christopher: 01:43:04

Yes.

Whitney: 01:43:05

Of the situation. Right? You must see the truth of yourself which that is one of the hardest truths Yes. To Right? Because you don't want to think of yourself as what happens?

Whitney: 01:43:18

You look at the truth. Oh, I'm not a bad person.

Christian: 01:43:20

Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:43:21

Right? People be so obsessed with being good people. Goddamn. Okay. Like sometimes you're not bad.

Whitney: 01:43:25

What does it mean? And sometimes you are the villain, my love. Right.

Christopher: 01:43:29

Yeah. Sometimes you are.

Whitney: 01:43:30

Sometimes you're the villain and sometimes that actually don't have nothing

Christian: 01:43:32

to do with Yeah. Sometimes that's something

Whitney: 01:43:34

to do with somebody else's narrative but sometimes you you you did the villainous

Christopher: 01:43:37

Yeah. They did the villainous shirt and I know some niggas that don't like me right now.

Whitney: 01:43:40

You know what I'm saying?

Christopher: 01:43:40

Which is fire.

Whitney: 01:43:41

Like, I'm I don't got beef with nobody but people might have beef with me. Yeah. If that's They

Christopher: 01:43:47

gotta eat their beef because I don't know can

Christian: 01:43:49

grill it up. Not I'm not sharing.

Whitney: 01:43:50

Can grill it up. And what I learned about eating beef is I will throw up. So It's

Christian: 01:43:54

not it's not for me. It's not.

Christopher: 01:43:56

I'm vegan, bitch.

Whitney: 01:43:57

It's not staying down. Somebody fed me beef on because I haven't had beef since 2010. They fed me beef on accident and I it ejected.

Christian: 01:44:06

You had to run. Propel.

Whitney: 01:44:08

In the middle of the night.

Christopher: 01:44:10

The middle of the night. Yeah. Refused. Yeah. Another book by Oprah.

Christopher: 01:44:13

Another book that Oprah

Christian: 01:44:15

Oh, no. Oprah's Book Club.

Christopher: 01:44:16

Uh-huh. Oprah's Book She actually wrote it with this guy. It was called What Happened To You.

Whitney: 01:44:20

Yes.

Christopher: 01:44:21

And there's something in my therapist got me reading. But one of the things that the repeating phrase is that instead of asking what's wrong with you Mhmm. That we need to be asking what happened to

Whitney: 01:44:35

you. Exactly.

Christopher: 01:44:36

Because it like you say, it takes us from this this posture of trying to fix something that's broken as opposed to trying to heal something

Whitney: 01:44:45

That has happened. That has occurred.

Christian: 01:44:47

Yeah. And

Christopher: 01:44:48

bringing a level of resolution Yes. To your life so that you can move forward.

Whitney: 01:44:53

Yes.

Christopher: 01:44:53

But it's it's more like you said that radical acceptance of, oh, you know what? Yeah. This happened to me. Yep. There's something wrong with me.

Christopher: 01:45:01

This is how my body and my mind reacted to what happened to me. And it makes sense Absolutely. That I reacted this way because this happened to me. Right. And that's okay.

Whitney: 01:45:11

And under this context, under this lens that I've been operating on, that is the the incubator for this behavior.

Christian: 01:45:19

Yeah.

Christopher: 01:45:19

Yes.

Christian: 01:45:20

Yes. Right?

Whitney: 01:45:20

Like Mhmm.

Christian: 01:45:21

This is how we got here.

Whitney: 01:45:22

Right. And so it's not to say that this lens will perpetually be my lens.

Christian: 01:45:26

Right.

Whitney: 01:45:26

Right? Like the lens can change.

Christopher: 01:45:29

Right.

Whitney: 01:45:29

Right? We can choose different narratives. Yes. We can integrate old narratives Right. Into new narratives.

Whitney: 01:45:35

Right? Like this used to be my narrative.

Christian: 01:45:38

And now it's this and.

Whitney: 01:45:39

Yes. Or it is, I'm no longer holding tightly to this, but please don't act like it's not there. Yeah. Because I think that's also it. Like, healing often, most of the time comes with scar tissue.

Christian: 01:45:54

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Right? Scars are scars are real.

Whitney: 01:45:58

Like, that's how you know something is healed is once it has scarred over. Yeah. And so to pretend that like, this is why like, I think I said this on either last episode or the episode before where I was like, oh, I've taken these tests and they're like, oh, you're secure attached. And I'm just like, yeah. But baby Yeah.

Whitney: 01:46:11

She came out of anxious attachment. Mhmm. Right? Yeah. And like because there are still scars Yeah.

Whitney: 01:46:16

Of that that are there. The healing is moving differently than moving through the wound. Right? Right. That wound is is closed up.

Whitney: 01:46:23

I can handle it. Right. But there's it's not to say there's no evidence that it was ever there.

Christopher: 01:46:28

Yeah. And that's and that's funny to me because there there was this quote from the movie Hannibal. I forgot which one it sounds. I think it's the last one, the latter one, where Anthony Hopkins says this phrase that says, our scars have the power to remind us that the past was real.

Whitney: 01:46:43

Yes.

Christopher: 01:46:44

And I was just like,

Christian: 01:46:46

oh, that's a song. The scars remind us that the past is real.

Whitney: 01:46:51

Is. What song is that?

Christian: 01:46:52

I tear my heart open just to fail. I tear my heart open.

Christopher: 01:46:59

Okay.

Whitney: 01:47:00

I cut something. Fuck. The name of the song is tear my heart open.

Christian: 01:47:04

Yeah. Is.

Christopher: 01:47:04

I remember the of

Christian: 01:47:05

It's an emo band.

Whitney: 01:47:06

I can't remember the name of it. Is it an

Christian: 01:47:07

emo band? It's absolutely an emo band.

Whitney: 01:47:09

Is it an emo band?

Christian: 01:47:10

I would be shocked.

Christopher: 01:47:11

I remember from a Hannibal movie, so I don't know.

Christian: 01:47:13

I I would not be surprised if they stole that line from

Whitney: 01:47:15

you. It's Papa Roach. It's not an emo band. I didn't think so. What are

Christian: 01:47:19

they, metal?

Christopher: 01:47:19

Nothing.

Whitney: 01:47:20

What are they? Nothing

Christopher: 01:47:21

about a roach emo.

Whitney: 01:47:22

Like rock. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 01:47:25

Yeah. That's a good song.

Whitney: 01:47:26

Just two things. Have to turn that one on. That was we gonna we gonna jam that on a little bit.

Christian: 01:47:29

That's a good song. But

Whitney: 01:47:30

God about tear my heart open.

Christian: 01:47:32

That's a good song.

Whitney: 01:47:32

But I don't do that. I mean, you could be There are other ways to feel.

Christian: 01:47:37

Yeah. I mean, you could be yeah. Don't don't tear. Because it's like if you're tearing

Whitney: 01:47:40

your heart open just to feel what you're actually trying to feel is tearing. There are other emotions to feel.

Christian: 01:47:46

You can feel things besides pain. Correct.

Christopher: 01:47:48

Yep.

Christian: 01:47:48

There are options.

Whitney: 01:47:49

Yeah. They might be uncomfortable.

Christian: 01:47:50

But no, you're right. Like Red

Christopher: 01:47:52

Dragon. What's the name of the movie?

Christian: 01:47:53

Oh, yeah. That movie was

Whitney: 01:47:55

Red Dragon? Red Dragon.

Christopher: 01:47:56

It was like the prequel.

Whitney: 01:47:58

So I don't watch nothing where people is eating folks.

Christian: 01:48:01

I don't watch yeah. Don't watch horror movies. Me and horror. Like, there's a so after you have a kid. Right?

Christian: 01:48:09

Mhmm. If you have a cesarean Mhmm. You're gonna have a they're they're gonna cut through the viscera,

Christopher: 01:48:14

all

Christian: 01:48:14

all the layers of skin and tissue and muscle and literally your

Christopher: 01:48:18

crushing

Christian: 01:48:19

my gut into pieces. This is my birthing sort. Get this

Whitney: 01:48:24

baby out. Make sure it's breathing.

Christopher: 01:48:27

This was our last resort.

Christian: 01:48:29

It was our last resort.

Christopher: 01:48:30

Wouldn't come.

Christian: 01:48:30

More Papa Roach. Sorry.

Whitney: 01:48:33

That was more Papa. Well, yeah. More Papa Roach. Pretty sure that one's Papa Roach. I think that is Yeah.

Whitney: 01:48:37

I can see his face. I reached my last resort, suffocation. No breathing. Give a fuck about I don't remember. There's too

Christian: 01:48:45

many words to this.

Whitney: 01:48:45

If I had the music, I would have it.

Christian: 01:48:47

I can say the chorus. Yeah. Mommy. You bring somebody with me about it. Yeah.

Christian: 01:48:51

So they cut through all this stuff. Right? And so you're going to have like, there's an external scar, which is the one that people can see. Right? Mhmm.

Christian: 01:48:58

And like mine, it half of it is you barely can tell it's there, but the other half of it, it looks like a baby came out of there. But the whole damn thing is numb. Yeah. Okay? So I have zero sensation where that scar is.

Christian: 01:49:12

And so the interesting thing about scarring is, like, it can have so many different manifestations even on the physical body. Absolutely. So, like, some of my scars, like, I have again, I've had three surgeries. Three? Three.

Christian: 01:49:27

I've had three surgeries. So I've had two two knee surgeries. So the scars on both of my knees are pretty soft. Right? They're very small.

Christian: 01:49:34

So they're relatively stretchy. I still have complete sensation. But, like, if I needed if they needed to go back in, they would not cut on those scars Right. Because the tissue is thicker. Mhmm.

Christian: 01:49:46

Right? Same thing if you get your nose

Whitney: 01:49:48

pierced or your eye pierced, then

Christian: 01:49:50

you need to go back through there. Frequently, they'll pick a different spot because it's harder in the spot where the where the initial piercing was. Right? Now and the other thing about it is scar tissue is not as elastic. So that is one of the risks of having multiple multiple pregnancies after cesarean is that that that that skin where they've had to cut it and restitch it, especially if you have to do it multiple times, it's not going to stretch as easily and you can risk what they call a rupture

Whitney: 01:50:18

Yeah.

Christian: 01:50:18

Which is honestly terrifying.

Whitney: 01:50:20

It's a rupture. Yeah.

Christian: 01:50:21

It's a literal rupture. And so we have to remember that when we're talking about healing, like emotional wounds. Mhmm. You can get to what looks like good. Right?

Christian: 01:50:31

Yeah. Everything's closed up, scars all nice and tiny. Sometimes stuff can happen that can have you like going back to start. Yeah. You're not you're not a machine.

Christian: 01:50:44

You have not so like you said Correct. You were talking about your depression and that you had figured out ways to keep from getting back there. Right? You had worked it out. That's amazing.

Christian: 01:50:54

Right? That's the goal. Because the goal is not to let it get, like, to you're not trying to get to the point of rupture. You're supposed to be using your scar tissue as a reminder of, oh, reminder of the past.

Whitney: 01:51:07

Yeah.

Christian: 01:51:07

Oh, I remember what yeah. I remember how we got here. I feel that I feel that pulling. Yep. I feel that pulling.

Christian: 01:51:12

Yep. Enact enact the protocol. Exactly. Right. It's like, oh, okay.

Christian: 01:51:19

Where is this coming from? Who who is who's pulling on the scar tissue?

Christopher: 01:51:22

Right.

Christian: 01:51:23

Right. It you? Okay. We need a break. Right.

Christian: 01:51:25

Because I gotta figure this out. Right? I'm not gonna have you pulling me apart. I'm not trying to tear my heart open. Correct.

Christian: 01:51:30

I I need I need I need a break so that I can, like, reassess what it is that is re aggravating something that I have already put through the healing process.

Whitney: 01:51:40

That's really it. And I think it is for me, I like, in my late twenties, my last Mhmm. Of my, like, chronic depression

Christopher: 01:51:49

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:51:50

I had an epiphany about, like, how life works. And I say an epiphany. I'm woo woo. One of these guys answer somebody up yonder told me something. And you heard.

Whitney: 01:52:01

And I say, oh, shit. Mhmm. Probably just like that. And it's it's worked ever since. Right?

Whitney: 01:52:07

And so, like, I've gone through divorces. Hell, I went through grad school. Okay?

Christian: 01:52:11

Gosh. Still

Whitney: 01:52:13

and marvel at that. While doing other shit. I've gone through breakouts. I've gone through shit that I think would have previously put me in a different space.

Christian: 01:52:20

I was definitely worried. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:52:22

Which is crazy. I was fine.

Christian: 01:52:23

But I which I know now.

Whitney: 01:52:24

You know, minus anxiety. And anxiety, she's a different girl. But the depression, I was fine. Yeah. And then, like, this situation happens where I felt like life was contracting.

Whitney: 01:52:35

Mhmm.

Christian: 01:52:35

And I

Whitney: 01:52:35

was like, oh, no. This feels this feels like that. Then

Christian: 01:52:40

Pulling on that tissue.

Whitney: 01:52:41

It was the tissue. But then what happened and to make it more tangible is I recognized I had clicked back into default narrative mode.

Christopher: 01:52:51

Oh.

Whitney: 01:52:52

That I hadn't had to confront in a while because that hadn't been the truth of the circumstances in a while. Yeah. And so when the circumstances got a little mirroring

Christopher: 01:53:01

Mhmm.

Christian: 01:53:01

You your your brain

Whitney: 01:53:03

was The tape changed. The tape that's normally in there playing somehow got changed.

Christopher: 01:53:07

Oh, wow.

Whitney: 01:53:08

And then I realized I was because I was praying about it. I was like, I don't feel like myself. I was like, I really don't. Like, I was struggling with gratitude, is not a thing.

Christopher: 01:53:16

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:53:16

That's not a thing for me. I'm like Yeah. Gratitude is how I survive. Okay? Like, it is air for me.

Whitney: 01:53:22

And so I was struggling with being grateful. I was struggling to see positives, and I'm that's not me. And so I was just like, oh my god. And so I was praying about it. I was like, say, listen.

Whitney: 01:53:32

Are we gonna have beef? Like, what's going on here? Like, I'm trying to do exactly the thing you said, and this shit isn't working. What is up? Like, something's gotta give.

Whitney: 01:53:44

And then it answer came to me again. Hey. Check that tape. It was the same message I got in my late twenties, and it was like, you're you changed the tape. Why did you change that tape back?

Whitney: 01:53:56

But it wasn't that I changed the tape. It's that, like, the scar had gotten pulled so tight that we didn't quite rupture. Praise God. Yeah. But we were on the cusp, the precipice of a rupture.

Whitney: 01:54:08

And when it got uncomfortable in that similar way, the narrative switched. Yeah. And so I like, no, baby. Gotta switch that narrative back. Like, use the thing that's been serving you.

Whitney: 01:54:18

Why the fuck would you go back?

Christopher: 01:54:19

Right. There's

Christian: 01:54:19

no pain. To go back to

Whitney: 01:54:21

But pain will trigger that for you. Particular pains can trigger particular narratives. Oh, they do.

Christopher: 01:54:27

Oh, yeah.

Whitney: 01:54:27

Don't trigger the same shit.

Christopher: 01:54:28

Oh, yeah.

Whitney: 01:54:29

They don't. So that's that's important to know. And so that particular I always say like there's a I used to say this about my

Christopher: 01:54:36

aim. That

Whitney: 01:54:37

is like, don't go off but like if you hit the buttons in the right sequence Yeah. You can unlock the vault. Yep. And that's probably still true. Fortunately, I got more buttons and a more complicated sequence.

Whitney: 01:54:47

More complicated sequence. You know? But for that, it was like, there there is a particular sequence to unlock depression and we were like, two buttons off.

Christian: 01:54:55

And then it was like, well, why?

Whitney: 01:54:56

Stop pushing the buttons. Stop pushing the buttons.

Christopher: 01:54:59

Yeah. What are you doing? Exactly. Yeah. And like you say that there are certain buttons that push that lets me go into uncaring mode

Whitney: 01:55:07

Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:55:08

About another person.

Christian: 01:55:10

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and Apathy.

Christopher: 01:55:12

Yeah. Yeah. Apathy.

Whitney: 01:55:14

At best sometimes.

Christopher: 01:55:15

At best. Yeah. And and so I can like you said, I'll have to go back and revisit those narratives and see what causes those things. But because for me in a relationship, I I'm a loyal person. Yeah.

Christopher: 01:55:30

And and I noticed that I'm loyal, but I also am very keen on when you're being disloyal. Yes.

Christian: 01:55:38

Yeah. Makes you more aware. Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:55:39

Makes you more aware. And so when I pick that up Mhmm. Then it's Yeah. It's it's And

Whitney: 01:55:46

it's a trigger. That and now it's Yeah. It's a trigger.

Christopher: 01:55:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Christian: 01:55:50

I mean, like

Christopher: 01:55:50

Yeah.

Christian: 01:55:51

So when you're Just

Christopher: 01:55:51

kinda bring that Yeah. Tangible because we were talking

Whitney: 01:55:54

Absolutely.

Christian: 01:55:54

Yeah. So when you're talking about that type of healing, right, and being able to change the narrative back, is that obviously, a lot of that has to do with you. Yeah. Right? Mhmm.

Christian: 01:56:05

But what kind of role does community play in that?

Whitney: 01:56:10

Yeah. You know what this takes me back to is something you've talked about. Right? It's space. It's space.

Whitney: 01:56:17

Like, I think I there were moments where, like, I would be on the phone with Jess and I would just be like, this fucking sucks and I hate it. Or I would be talking to Hailey. Like the people that are just kinda right here. Right? Yeah.

Whitney: 01:56:32

And at the time, Jess and I Jess is also single. So like like, there we have more time during the day.

Christian: 01:56:37

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:56:38

And Jess had a really flexible job at the time. And so like, it was one of those things where I was like, okay. I and we and this is what we we're very similar. And so I was just like, fucking hate it. I hate it.

Whitney: 01:56:46

I hate everything about it. And Jess didn't like, she would encourage me Mhmm. But, like, she would let me get it out. Yeah. Say, well, Hailey Hailey's so good.

Whitney: 01:56:54

Hailey's been good at that since, like, Hailey was, like, six. But so Hailey's been literally holding secrets since Hailey was six. But that is because Hailey didn't know to take their ass to bed. Mhmm. I had to pay them off.

Whitney: 01:57:04

Wow. So I could sneak out. Wow. And do non hoodrush shit with my friends. Because I do no hoodrush shit.

Christian: 01:57:12

I love that so much.

Whitney: 01:57:14

I literally had to pay that kid. We she negotiated. I love it. I love it. Like, 5?

Whitney: 01:57:19

That sounds like Sid. I was like, I got $2. Hailey was like, was like, don't say nothing. Hailey was like, make it 5.

Christian: 01:57:26

What the fuck? Mhmm.

Whitney: 01:57:28

Don't have a Leo sibling. That's all I have to say. They're gonna they're gonna stick you for your paper. If I can get some out of it, what? Listen.

Whitney: 01:57:35

Ain't didn't say he hadn't said anything to this day. To this day. To this day.

Christopher: 01:57:39

Some of the

Whitney: 01:57:39

evolved. You wanna talk about loyal, evolved, My sibling is evolved. My sibling is there are things my my sibling knew way before my parents and it never came out.

Christopher: 01:57:50

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:57:51

Truly. But

Christopher: 01:57:53

That's right. You guys should do me.

Whitney: 01:57:54

Speak ups to the Hailey monster. But what was I answering? What was I talking about? So like in that, just like holding space. Right?

Whitney: 01:58:03

Letting me because at the end of the day, I think most people in my life trust that like, I will get there. Yeah. Right? Like I've there's enough of a pattern at this point for me that it's like, let her get it out and provide support, maybe a reminder here and there. Yeah.

Whitney: 01:58:19

But like, just sit with me.

Christian: 01:58:20

Yeah. Right? What I

Whitney: 01:58:22

will others this is the other piece of this I'm a say, and this is gonna sound anti community. It's not. Okay. Certain shit I gotta do by myself. Certain shit is an inside job.

Christopher: 01:58:34

Yeah.

Whitney: 01:58:35

And that may not be true for everybody. I'm not saying it's the right way. I'm saying that's how Whitney handles a lot of it. So my because of my relationship with spirit, there are times where I have to go silent. Like, I can't

Christopher: 01:58:50

But see, that's also community.

Whitney: 01:58:52

You know what? Yes. You better full circle. Okay.

Christopher: 01:58:56

I love it.

Christian: 01:58:57

That's right. That's true.

Whitney: 01:58:59

I'm actually never alone. Like, I never feel alone. That's true.

Christopher: 01:59:02

Right. But for for those for for whom the veil is staying Yeah. That is

Christian: 01:59:06

That's it is absolutely part

Whitney: 01:59:08

of community. And it's a very near community to me. It's a very dear. We talk all the time, all day, like, it's it's a constant I feel like they'd be like, oh childish child. And then but then they also be giving me what's useful, you know.

Whitney: 01:59:19

Sometimes they sassy and that's fun. But like, I'm never alone. And so I may go you're right. I may go silent earth side. Right?

Whitney: 01:59:28

Mhmm. Right? Like, there are days I'm just like, literally my sibling because we live together. My sibling will be like, you good? Haven't seen you.

Whitney: 01:59:35

Right? I'll be like or like will text me and be like, you alright? Me? Mhmm. Yep.

Whitney: 01:59:40

Okay. Like That's it. Said, we I do the same for them. Right. And it is because I just I need to be with my spirit folk.

Whitney: 01:59:50

Yeah. Mhmm. Because we are we we we working on something.

Christian: 01:59:52

Yeah. Mhmm.

Christopher: 01:59:53

Right? We're collabing. We're cooking.

Whitney: 01:59:55

We cooking. Let her cook. We're in the kitchen. And so yeah. I love that.

Whitney: 01:59:59

Thank you for that reframing. That was I don't think I had ever conceived of that in that way. Love that. That was really helpful for me. Thank you.

Christopher: 02:00:05

Right. Yeah. I mean, it it it's it makes sense because we talk about even with the the trinity and with the our philosophical framework that we built up to be the trinity

Whitney: 02:00:15

Yeah.

Christopher: 02:00:16

Is that God is living in concert and community with himself. Yeah. And the whole reason why church is a relevant idea is because community is God's idea. And when the church ceases to be community, then it's no longer God's idea. No.

Whitney: 02:00:31

That's real. No.

Christopher: 02:00:32

That's which also

Whitney: 02:00:33

imply in that regard, could you then be in community with other versions of yourself?

Christian: 02:00:41

I mean, that sounds like integration. That that's how

Whitney: 02:00:43

it feels to me. Yeah.

Christian: 02:00:45

That sounds like integration.

Christopher: 02:00:46

That's that's a work.

Christian: 02:00:48

Well, I mean That's because you think

Whitney: 02:00:49

as long as you're properly in community, I don't think if you are subscribed to being distant or disconnected, you that's not real.

Christian: 02:00:57

It's not gonna work.

Christopher: 02:00:58

It's not.

Whitney: 02:00:58

Or if y'all if you don't if you're not present enough to recognize the difference in narratives and the and the truth.

Christopher: 02:01:04

Right. If you if you

Whitney: 02:01:05

still You're not operating in truth, you cannot possibly be.

Christopher: 02:01:07

Right. And especially if you're in a in a in a place where you feel like, oh, I hate this past.

Whitney: 02:01:13

Yeah. That's not real.

Christopher: 02:01:14

And you're still not you're still not reconciled with why you why past you did what you did. Exactly. Yeah. You know

Whitney: 02:01:21

You're already disconnected. So you can't be in community and disconnected.

Christopher: 02:01:24

Exactly. I think I was just in in the book, Oprah talks about this interview that he's had that he that she had with this guy who was a convicted killer. And he ended up, you know, changing his life, meditating. I think his son wrote him to, hey, man. I heard that you murdered somebody.

Christopher: 02:01:40

Please don't murder anymore. Like, Jesus was watching. And that was, like, the turning point for him to turn his life around. Yeah. Him also being having been traumatized

Christian: 02:01:50

Yeah. Of course.

Christopher: 02:01:51

As a kid with a dysregulated mom. You know, he end up in a situation where he end up killing somebody. But he said one of the things that he did say was that he had to learn, like you said, how to forgive himself. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher: 02:02:05

And understand where he come from. And there's a lot of people that are, like you said, killers or or murderers that are imprisoned that that that that embrace a certain level of religiosity or certain level of spiritualness. Mhmm. But they really hate who they were.

Whitney: 02:02:20

Exactly.

Christopher: 02:02:21

Yeah. And so and you feel and you and you hear them even in their prayers and that that that that eternal anguish Yeah. That they feel like being shit before God's presence because they have reckoned they had, you know, they have relegated that this, you know, this was a terrible person.

Whitney: 02:02:38

Mhmm.

Christopher: 02:02:38

And it's like, yeah. But, like, that's because of what happened to you.

Whitney: 02:02:41

Right. Yeah. You know who that reminds me of? Be Simone. I don't know if y'all heard about Be Simone.

Christopher: 02:02:44

Yeah. I've heard yeah.

Christian: 02:02:45

Chris told about talked about it once before. Yeah.

Whitney: 02:02:47

This this is literally what it feels like. It's like, no, this is the same energy just directed in a different direction. Yeah. Like, it's the same shit though. You still haven't integrated yourself.

Christopher: 02:02:55

Because you

Whitney: 02:02:55

still out here you're you still feel shame therefore you are shaming.

Christopher: 02:02:59

Right.

Christian: 02:03:00

And that's what I was about to say is when you when you when your outward change is not coupled with a recognition that the person that you were before is human Yeah. And Yeah. Did things that were not good and also was a like a flawed being that was doing the best they could have When they're past. Right? When you change in that way, I I could see it very easily being a lack of empathy for people who in the situation that you were and assuming that they just need to buck up and bootstraps and all that other bullshit.

Christian: 02:03:35

Right? And fix themselves like you did. Yeah. Right? And it's like, baby didn't need fixing, they don't need fixing.

Christian: 02:03:42

Reconciling, healing, lots of that. It doesn't sound like you've done either.

Whitney: 02:03:47

Which it's one of those things where I'm like, had you been in a true community, they would the energy of that would be such that you would be working on reconciling to yourself.

Christopher: 02:03:58

Right.

Whitney: 02:03:58

Like we folk we ex again, externalize power. We're trying to reconcile to God Mhmm. In substitution of reconciling to ourselves.

Christopher: 02:04:07

Yes.

Whitney: 02:04:07

As if God is not within us. As if. You know, that doesn't make sense. And it's like, well, then when you approach community from that direction, then who are you pointing to? Yeah.

Whitney: 02:04:19

What's what's the goal here? And so supportive community operates differently. It does. Yeah. Does.

Whitney: 02:04:26

Supportive community reminds you of your internal power. Support a supportive community allow reminds you of your collective power because internal power can be collective if we're all one.

Christopher: 02:04:36

Yeah. Right.

Whitney: 02:04:37

Right? So then we get to leverage that. It's so funny. I was talking to a client who brilliant client. And, you know, we were just talking about the, like, state of affairs and the different things going on within community.

Whitney: 02:04:49

And it was like, you know, the struggle of, well, am I doing enough? Like Yes. We're living in history right now. And I've always said, wonder how I would respond

Christian: 02:04:58

to Narrative, am I doing it And

Whitney: 02:05:00

so one of the things that I I said to her is that, like and I said this and it and I warned her because I gotta warn people because sometimes the woo hit and I don't got nothing else but the woo. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And it's like, but I know this is a truth.

Whitney: 02:05:14

Because it came to me as gobsmacked me. So if it don't gobsmacked you, cool. No worries. Throw it away. But I said to her, I was like, you know, the the figuring out of, oh my god, what should I do?

Whitney: 02:05:24

What should I do? It was like when that happens, go inside. We are literally all connected. We are all one. If we all believe we come from one creator, we got a common through line.

Christian: 02:05:34

Yeah. Right.

Whitney: 02:05:35

And if you sit still long enough, instead of trying to fix the problem, you'll actually be able to intuit what needs to be done next. Because the same god, spirit, intuition, whatever that talks to you knows everything that's happening.

Christopher: 02:05:50

Yeah.

Whitney: 02:05:51

And can sync it up. This is how we get synchronicities. This is how we get serendipity. This is how we get all

Christian: 02:05:56

of those like, oh, wow. A coincidence. Yeah.

Whitney: 02:05:58

Great. Right? Which I don't believe it. I don't know. You can keep a coincidence.

Whitney: 02:06:02

We could use it for language. Yes. Right. But, like, at the end of the day, it's orchestration. Yeah.

Whitney: 02:06:06

Yeah. You know, like none of this shit is is being lost. And so, like, that's how that happens. Right? You are following the whispers of your own soul and intuition.

Christopher: 02:06:17

Mhmm.

Whitney: 02:06:18

And that links up with somebody else's because we are all one, which is why we need each other. I only got part of the story.

Christopher: 02:06:25

Right.

Whitney: 02:06:26

I only got party instructions. Yeah. I do. You got another part, you got another part. Everybody listening has another part.

Whitney: 02:06:32

People ain't listening got another part. Y'all should listen Right. Yeah. Like, we all have pieces of

Christian: 02:06:37

the puzzle. I am in and

Whitney: 02:06:39

of myself am not God. Right? I am a reflection of God. Yeah. I am one angle of God.

Whitney: 02:06:44

One facet. One facet of God. But the

Christian: 02:06:47

rest of of us are too. Right.

Christopher: 02:06:50

Right.

Whitney: 02:06:50

And if we put it together

Christian: 02:06:52

Makes one big beautiful One big

Whitney: 02:06:54

picture if we can do it with love, which is God. Mhmm.

Christian: 02:06:59

Gotta come together.

Whitney: 02:07:00

You know? And so this is why, like but even doing we've talked about this on previous episodes. Even being in community requires that vulnerability. Absolutely. Because if I'm coming in with ego, I'm not coming in with love.

Christopher: 02:07:12

No. Exactly.

Whitney: 02:07:14

If I'm I'm coming in with fear, more importantly because I think that's the other thing that I've heard from a lot of people, clients

Christopher: 02:07:20

and

Whitney: 02:07:21

other people. It's like, oh, I'm scared. I don't know which to do, and I don't wanna put myself at risk. Baby, fear and love don't live together. Right.

Whitney: 02:07:28

No. Perfect love drives out all fear. Fear and love cannot live together. Hate is not an opposite.

Christian: 02:07:34

Yeah.

Whitney: 02:07:34

Fear is the opposite. So if you are too scared to I'm not saying you can never be afraid. Fear is also a natural human interaction. Right? Right.

Christopher: 02:07:42

It's what we need to to survive.

Whitney: 02:07:44

But if you're living through the lens of fear, you are not loving.

Christopher: 02:07:49

Yeah. You're not. You cannot. That's that's the foresight.

Christian: 02:07:54

Yeah. Yeah. And I like, right now when you were talking about, you know, sometimes you need to go inside Yeah. And and be be with the the spirit community

Christopher: 02:08:06

Mhmm.

Christian: 02:08:06

Right, instead of the physical community. That requires a vulnerability

Whitney: 02:08:11

Mhmm.

Christian: 02:08:11

With your physical community.

Whitney: 02:08:13

It does.

Christian: 02:08:14

Right? And then they have to honor that whatever space you're taking. I mean, I guess they don't have to. They could come beat your door down. But we don't act like

Whitney: 02:08:21

Not my community. I got

Christian: 02:08:21

the best one. Like, we don't act like that. But but at the same like, for Hailey to be like, hey, good. Yep. Yep.

Christian: 02:08:27

And for that to be

Whitney: 02:08:28

That's it.

Christian: 02:08:29

Yeah. Right? For that to be enough.

Whitney: 02:08:30

Possibly. They're never gonna push. Well, I

Christian: 02:08:33

mean, put it this you know what I'm saying? Like and I I'll do the same thing if I check-in and if it's

Whitney: 02:08:37

like You do.

Christian: 02:08:38

Too fast, too if it's short, if it's whatever, it's like, either busy not feeling it right now, either way is fine. I know you're alive. Yeah. You're okay. We're gonna talk eventually.

Christian: 02:08:49

Right? And so there's a vulnerability on your end. Mhmm. Right? Because we talked about maybe two weeks ago about the need to not be misunderstood.

Christian: 02:08:59

Yeah. And so when you are not engaging with someone in the way that you normally would or you feel like you don't want to, you don't need to, you need to do something else right now. Mhmm. And I do that I do this constantly. And I am I am cognizant of it and working on it because when you said not enough, that is a conversation I have with my therapist so much.

Whitney: 02:09:19

Wait, not enough?

Christian: 02:09:20

Not not being enough? Not doing enough.

Christopher: 02:09:23

You.

Christian: 02:09:23

Specifically not doing enough.

Whitney: 02:09:26

You know how to remember what I said? No. No.

Christian: 02:09:28

Yeah. It's specifically not doing enough. Right? Yeah. And so if I send a text to somebody Mhmm.

Christian: 02:09:33

And I don't get the response in the same energy that they normally send it, it's like, oh, did I do something?

Whitney: 02:09:40

Oh,

Christian: 02:09:40

did I did I wait too long to text? You know, like Yeah. Things start running around in your mind. Absolutely. And so for that reason, to not respond Mhmm.

Christian: 02:09:50

Or to respond in a different way and not because this is for me, to not assume that if I go, I'm alright, and just leave it rather than needing to, like, force myself to engage to not be perceived as Yeah. There being something. Know what I'm saying?

Whitney: 02:10:05

Absolutely do.

Christian: 02:10:06

That's vulnerable. It is for me.

Whitney: 02:10:08

It is. I think for me, there are certain people where I don't worry about that. Absolutely. Right? Like, I don't if you are like, I'm fine.

Whitney: 02:10:15

I can even via text, I can hear your voice. Yeah. Right? And so I'm like, okay. She dealing with something.

Whitney: 02:10:20

I'm a let her deal with it, and then we're gonna catch up. Same. Right? And so there are other people where I think because anxious, the scar tissue

Christian: 02:10:28

That's what I'm saying.

Whitney: 02:10:28

Scar tissue be there. And so there are other people where I'm like, I my brain will start to construct.

Christopher: 02:10:34

Mhmm. Yeah.

Whitney: 02:10:34

Right? And it's erector setting something that's real wanted. Yeah. And then you're just like, wait a minute. And for me, I like because I've been doing this a while.

Whitney: 02:10:43

Right. I catch it quickly. And I'm just like, hey, you don't have enough information for that. That is as soon as I say to myself so much, you don't have enough information

Christian: 02:10:52

For that. For that. Yeah. Right?

Christopher: 02:10:55

You're doing too much.

Whitney: 02:10:56

You're doing too You're doing too And even if you do have information Mhmm. Then you have information and maybe you need to make a decision. Right. Or maybe a conversation needs to if you have information, a conversation needs to happen.

Christian: 02:11:08

And there is that vulnerability again.

Whitney: 02:11:10

But nine times out of 10 when that's happening, I do not have enough information to draw whatever conclusion about how they're perceiving me. But you're right. It's that fear of being that old narrative, that fear of being misunderstood and we gotta listen. We'd be wrapping her up because I'd like, hey, hey, hon. I hear you.

Whitney: 02:11:28

This this is literally how I talk

Christopher: 02:11:30

to myself. Hey,

Whitney: 02:11:31

hon. Hey, love. Precious one, if it listen. Listen. Sweet girl, when when we're really going on, sweet girl.

Whitney: 02:11:38

Hey, sweet girl. I hear you. However, we don't have enough information. You're jumping without a pole vault Yeah. To conclusions.

Whitney: 02:11:47

Damn.

Christopher: 02:11:48

Yeah. You're gonna

Christian: 02:11:49

be falling to conclusions.

Christopher: 02:11:50

Fear fear be having us doing too much and not enough at the same time.

Whitney: 02:11:55

Literally.

Christopher: 02:11:56

Fear be be having you doing too much and not enough at the same time.

Christian: 02:12:03

Yep. Mhmm.

Christopher: 02:12:04

And because it it it disconnects you from the moment.

Whitney: 02:12:09

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Christian: 02:12:10

You live somewhere else.

Christopher: 02:12:11

Meet the moment with what the moment actually demands.

Whitney: 02:12:14

Correct.

Christopher: 02:12:15

And I think part of to your to your point about fear that what we are fearing is the emotion of fear.

Christian: 02:12:22

And that it will never end.

Christopher: 02:12:22

And not necessarily the actual event in question.

Whitney: 02:12:26

Exactly. Yeah.

Christopher: 02:12:27

Because when you're in the moment in real time, you know what to do.

Whitney: 02:12:32

Or you figure it out.

Christopher: 02:12:33

You figure it out. And there's there's not this paralyzing fear. Like Exactly. I'll say, for example, something as traumatic as a public shooting. We can fear the idea of it Yeah.

Christopher: 02:12:44

And be like, oh, man. Like, that'd be terrible if that, like, actually happened. And it would When you but when it happens Mhmm. On the ground, you're not paralyzed.

Christian: 02:12:52

Right. No. You do so.

Christopher: 02:12:53

Cover. You're going to such and such.

Whitney: 02:12:54

Yeah.

Christopher: 02:12:55

Like, the the the the emotions that the emotions that transpire when a thing is happening is very different than when you're thinking about it happening. Yeah. And and learning, like you said, being present and help you and not living in this heightened fear. Oh, what could happen? What could

Christian: 02:13:11

go wrong?

Christopher: 02:13:11

Yeah. And living in this, okay, what is happening though? Right. And what is going on in me that I need to respond to that helps you to be present enough

Whitney: 02:13:21

Yeah.

Christopher: 02:13:21

To have a a better relationship with the truth of yourself and who you are.

Whitney: 02:13:26

Yeah. And I think that's the thing we'd be forgetting with fear is that, like, your body has mechanisms to respond. That's what adrenaline is for.

Christopher: 02:13:33

Right.

Whitney: 02:13:33

Yeah. You know? Kicks in and it does the work. What I will say is that what this conversation isn't this particular section of the conversation is not addressing is like PTSD. No.

Whitney: 02:13:43

Right? Yeah. So this is we are not saying that that applies to like Everybody in it. Right. Like if you were to live through a shooting, then the fear that comes as a result of lived experience, That is actually your nervous system not feeling safe because it was not safe.

Whitney: 02:13:57

Right. And it is normal to feel unsafe

Christian: 02:14:00

when you've not been safe. Exactly.

Whitney: 02:14:01

Correct. And so like, this is also a thing. And I I was

Christopher: 02:14:04

I'm give a sound behind what I said.

Christian: 02:14:05

I'm just

Whitney: 02:14:05

You know what I'm saying? I got you. I got you, bro. And so, like, this is the other piece, and I've I've been saying this a lot to people and to clients is that, like, what in in decolonizing therapy practices Mhmm. One of the things and this and I am guilty shit because I was trained.

Whitney: 02:14:19

But and this is what I was talking to you about, like, psychology earlier, is we so often talk about being regulated. That, like, that is the goal. You wanna be regulated. You wanna be always in control and blah blah blah blah blah. And for me, yes, but not in a physical way.

Whitney: 02:14:34

Like, it exists in the spiritual realm for me. Yes. Right? But that's not what psychology is talking about. Right?

Whitney: 02:14:38

Like, it's talking about your nervous system being regulated all the time. How do I return back to normal? And that's how you function. The issue is when you are living in chaos Yeah. Mhmm.

Whitney: 02:14:49

Regulation is is antithetical. Your body is responding the way it is exactly exactly designed Yeah. To respond because this is chaotic. Right. So you don't feel safe because you're not safe.

Christopher: 02:15:02

You're not safe.

Whitney: 02:15:03

And to then say, you need to go find safety, figure out safety, but the environment is not safe. And so for me, it's like, yeah, I don't necessarily feel dysregulated right now, but that's because my sense of safety is not externalized. Because I am also not afraid of death. Like

Christopher: 02:15:20

Yeah.

Whitney: 02:15:20

Which is that's a leap for a lot of people and I accept that and I'm not saying that you that's where you need to go.

Christopher: 02:15:24

It comes with the woo woo package.

Whitney: 02:15:26

It does come with a woo woo package. It

Christian: 02:15:28

does. The woo woo You can mail back.

Whitney: 02:15:30

You get the woo woo, you get that for free. And so but it's it's one of those things where like if you are boots on the ground, five senses. Right? Like if that's where you find yourself and you are worried about why am I so anxious? Why am I so worried?

Whitney: 02:15:44

Because this is anxiety inducing and it's worrying, bitch. Like, it's sorry. I meant to call you a bitch. But like you, the audience, I love you. I just use bitch casually.

Whitney: 02:15:53

But the you you're having an appropriate response Yeah. To in our case, fascism.

Christopher: 02:16:01

Mhmm. Yeah.

Whitney: 02:16:02

And authoritarianism and all Yes. You're having an appropriate response. And so it is the the the controlling mechanism that's telling you

Christopher: 02:16:10

Right.

Whitney: 02:16:10

That's inappropriate. Mhmm.

Christian: 02:16:12

You need to calm down. It's not inappropriate.

Whitney: 02:16:14

It's not at all inappropriate. And what I would actually say is lean in. Yep.

Christopher: 02:16:20

Lock in, lean in.

Christian: 02:16:21

Lean in. And I this is what I'll say at the as we wrap this one up. Right? So we're talking about what healing looks like, especially in 2025 in Morocco. The the reality of healing for you Mhmm.

Christian: 02:16:36

Right, as as Whitney says, if your safety when you're when you're not externalizing your safety and fully concerned with like, whether you live or die, you can obviously have a degree of regulation that a lot of other people can't, which is what she said.

Christopher: 02:16:49

Right.

Christian: 02:16:49

But if you're talking about healing and dealing with the things and the ways you respond that you wish were different, whatever that means

Whitney: 02:16:58

Mhmm.

Christian: 02:17:00

Right now, and she said this last week and I'm a say it again, the best thing you can be Surprise. Is yourself. Yeah.

Christopher: 02:17:07

Yeah.

Christian: 02:17:08

Whoever that self is right now. Anticipity is he. You got to be present Mhmm. With who you are

Whitney: 02:17:16

Mhmm.

Christian: 02:17:18

Intentional, yes, as you move forward in trying to make whatever changes you're making. And, you know, we've had I've had discussions with people who are starting gardens, Right. We're trying to start different educational groups to make sure that kids notice stuff that they're deciding they're not gonna teach in school anymore, trying to figure out how mutual aid is gonna work. Like, yeah, all of that stuff. But being present where like, right where you are and being fully embodied in who you are is the most important thing we can do right now.

Christian: 02:17:44

Yep. And like fascism or not, that's you need to do that for your healing.

Whitney: 02:17:49

Every time.

Christian: 02:17:50

Like that we're we're talking about it because fascism, but we should have we should do it all the time.

Whitney: 02:17:56

We should.

Christopher: 02:17:56

Do it all the time.

Christian: 02:17:57

You know, so Yeah.

Whitney: 02:17:58

You know, and and being in touch with yourself and being aligned with your soul, actually, I ain't gonna hold it's resistance. That is a revolutionary act. Everything that has happened in our society Mhmm. Has been to get us to detach because it is easier to control people who are detached from themselves Yeah. And from their souls Absolutely.

Whitney: 02:18:21

And from each other.

Christopher: 02:18:21

Absolutely. And

Whitney: 02:18:22

so being in community in an authentic way Yep. Authentic and connected way is an act of revolution. Being in community with yourself is an act of revolution. Wild. Being in community with spirit is an act of revolution.

Whitney: 02:18:37

I'm not saying it is the only acts, but if you line up with those three

Christian: 02:18:41

That's a good place to be.

Whitney: 02:18:42

You will be in a good position to fight.

Christopher: 02:18:44

Right. And that and that's what Gil Scott Heron was even talking about when

Whitney: 02:18:47

he

Christopher: 02:18:48

talking about the the revolution and whatnot we televised. Yep. It's not just about it's not about the external revolution. Is really about the internal process or transformation that occurs

Whitney: 02:18:59

Exactly.

Christopher: 02:18:59

When you realize what you need to do

Christian: 02:19:02

Within you.

Christopher: 02:19:03

To within you

Whitney: 02:19:04

That's where it starts.

Christopher: 02:19:05

To resist.

Whitney: 02:19:06

That's where it starts.

Christopher: 02:19:07

Yeah. Like like

Whitney: 02:19:09

A matter of fact, fascism can't exist if we're all connected. This if we had all been connected, this would never have been the outcome.

Christian: 02:19:15

No. Yeah. They they they got they got us Never. They got us to they got

Christopher: 02:19:19

us to imitate ourselves. Disembodied disconnected narratives about ourselves and the others this idea of rugged individualism. Some people are more equal than others.

Christian: 02:19:28

And bootstraps.

Christopher: 02:19:29

And and bootstraps and all of this idea about supremacy. Yep.

Whitney: 02:19:33

Really Valor.

Christopher: 02:19:34

I released yeah. I released this prophetic word on Facebook. It was just really, you know, it was

Whitney: 02:19:41

just something Just church woo woo for all of y'all listening.

Christopher: 02:19:43

Church woo woo.

Whitney: 02:19:44

He teach church woo woo.

Christopher: 02:19:45

I am church woo woo. It just it just it just roll right on out.

Whitney: 02:19:48

Hell, a spiritual in connection. Hell, it connected.

Christopher: 02:19:50

It just rolled right on out. Sure. But it was definitely something that I felt was very perfect. And and it wasn't perfect. It was just really just like chickens gonna come home to roost.

Christopher: 02:19:59

That's that's the that was the sum of it.

Whitney: 02:20:01

That's it.

Christopher: 02:20:02

And it's like, you're gonna sit here and and make fun and jest and make jest about these people in chains getting put on deportation planes.

Whitney: 02:20:11

The

Christopher: 02:20:11

same thing you're putting out in the universe is coming back to

Whitney: 02:20:14

you. Absolutely.

Christopher: 02:20:15

The nations around you will not come for you when you need help.

Whitney: 02:20:18

It's literally every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Christopher: 02:20:22

Reaction.

Whitney: 02:20:23

We're we're not gonna act like these laws just apply to the physical plane. They do not. If it is a universal law, if it is a universal truth, it applies.

Christopher: 02:20:30

Right. And so if you're gonna, you know, if you're gonna take pride and take joy in another person's dismay, then

Whitney: 02:20:37

It's coming back for you.

Christopher: 02:20:38

Coming back

Christian: 02:20:38

for you.

Whitney: 02:20:39

That is the problem you have agreed to

Christian: 02:20:40

endure too.

Whitney: 02:20:41

That's yeah.

Christopher: 02:20:42

That's the agreement you came into. Yep. And so America is is is on a decline because of that.

Whitney: 02:20:46

Why the hell are you jingling keys? Sorry. I didn't

Christopher: 02:20:49

I was stimming, I guess.

Whitney: 02:20:51

Hurt.

Christopher: 02:20:51

Trying

Whitney: 02:20:51

to I respect that.

Christian: 02:20:53

Gotta get you a we gotta get you a clean cord.

Whitney: 02:20:55

I was like,

Christian: 02:20:55

yeah. You doing?

Whitney: 02:20:56

Be my ass all the time.

Christian: 02:20:58

Well, y'all, this is the final main episode Yeah. Of season

Whitney: 02:21:05

y'all be cheating. Okay. How many minutes do we have?

Christopher: 02:21:09

Six minutes.

Whitney: 02:21:10

Okay. I just wanna say, a, I love you all.

Christian: 02:21:12

Oh, I love

Whitney: 02:21:13

you. Okay. Yes. Not audience. I love these two people in this room.

Whitney: 02:21:15

And I just wanna say, even though we're too far apart to hug each other, we'll hug when we're done. I am really really proud of us for doing this thing and putting ourselves out there and continuing with it. Like y'all y'all don't understand how recording a podcast with your authentic self and your authentic opinions with your closest people is so vulnerable.

Christian: 02:21:39

Oh, god.

Whitney: 02:21:40

Yes. So vulnerable. Like even season one, we weren't talking about vulnerability and it was so vulnerable. Was. And so I am I just wanna say I'm proud of Whitney.

Whitney: 02:21:50

I am proud of Christian. I am proud of Christopher that we have stuck with it and we're keep doing it. That's what you need to This ain't the end. Right.

Christopher: 02:21:59

We're gonna run on and see what the end gonna be. You know, they say, you know, what and we need a hundred episodes before we can realize whatever we're going with picking up steam. I'm sitting here sluttering. I

Whitney: 02:22:09

mean, listen.

Christopher: 02:22:10

Like, we already You gotta waste it. Twelve, sixteen, I mean, we feel like we are we hitting our stride a little bit.

Whitney: 02:22:14

Period. Feel it's radish. It's village. And listen, the feedback we got, people already been like season two. Y'all cooking.

Christopher: 02:22:35

Fun Yeah. A little sprinkles here in there.

Christian: 02:22:37

Like, little get little get little special special, little behind the scenes, before

Whitney: 02:22:41

the pod. During the pod.

Christian: 02:22:44

Random pod. Random Random diatribes.

Christopher: 02:22:47

Little confessions.

Whitney: 02:22:48

Conversessions. A little conversations. So, you know, y'all just stay tuned if you see it pop up. It's first of all, subscribe if you haven't already. Wherever you're listening to your podcast.

Whitney: 02:22:56

Yeah. Go ahead and subscribe so you get the notifications. Rate it you the rating

Christian: 02:23:03

system system on it. Rated highly. Yeah. If you don't like it, you can email us personally and we can talk.

Whitney: 02:23:08

That part.

Christopher: 02:23:08

Talk about it. We're open to critique.

Whitney: 02:23:09

But yeah, like y'all We

Christopher: 02:23:11

don't mess up our public persona right now.

Whitney: 02:23:13

That's why. You ain't got to. Not lying. No. If you Address it directly.

Christopher: 02:23:18

If you have to.

Whitney: 02:23:19

We are amenable

Christopher: 02:23:20

to Right. Right.

Christian: 02:23:20

Yeah. Send us the constructive criticism. Yeah. Yeah. And then send the world the accolades.

Christian: 02:23:25

That's what we're

Christopher: 02:23:25

with us. You can't,

Whitney: 02:23:26

shut up. That's amen and amen. Amen and amen. So so y'all, again, thank you so much.

Christian: 02:23:33

Thank you for joining us for all of this. If you have anything you wanna chat about us with, keep on the lookout. We're thinking about starting some kind of group chat.

Whitney: 02:23:42

We are group chats. Maybe we'll have a few more features on the podcast next season.

Christian: 02:23:47

Yeah. Maybe you'll be able to see some of the foolishness.

Whitney: 02:23:49

Yeah. Maybe

Christian: 02:23:50

I know we

Whitney: 02:23:51

said that last season, but we actually working on it this season.

Christian: 02:23:53

Yeah. We're actually gonna put in the effort because, man,

Christopher: 02:23:56

shed right now. So, you know, I'm gonna build a little studio.

Whitney: 02:23:58

Get the recording studio out of my house.

Christopher: 02:24:01

I mean,

Christian: 02:24:01

you know, equal hop on. Oh. Yeah. Yes. Well, thank you for joining us.

Christian: 02:24:06

We will catch you next season. Have a good day.

Christopher: 02:24:09

Bye. Good day. Holla.

Whitney: 02:24:14

Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Uproot Project Podcast. We hope you found fresh perspective and continue to make space for real growth. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcast. You can follow us on social media at the uproot project podcast on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, or visit us at wwwtheuprootpodcast.com for more content. To contact us, feel free to drop us a line at hello@theuprootpodcast.com.

Whitney: 02:24:48

Until next time, keep living fully, learning openly, and loving deeply. We'll see you soon.